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.444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

 
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  #15  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:16 AM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

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Originally Posted by CogburnR View Post
Seems to me that a 45/70 with a 300g loaded at 2000fps ought to kill any of your pigs and goats. I don't think He will be using the 500g Elephant loads that these things will shoot. Bullet drop out to 125-150 yards is not a big factor and if you use iron sights that's about all you will shoot anyway. A ballistic plex scope will allow shooting out to 300yards or so...maybe more

I have shot groups with my 1895 Marlin Cowboy that you can cover with a quarter at 100 yards. My GBL is a little different kritter but it still shoots pretty well. It is getting a 2-7 Burris ballistic plex.

I have never used a 30-30 or 444 but I can tell you that if you shoot a deer with a 300g 45/70 you won't have to look far for it and a blind man could follow the blood trail the few yards to where the dead animal with the large hole in it is.

I guess the point is that you can load a 300g bullet in a 45/70 all the way from subsonic to 2200fps+ or so and tailor it to your needs and amount of recoil you want. Ammo and components are way easier to get at least here in the USA.
I looked at the 45-70 when I bought the .450. The problem was that I only shot the rifle once or twice a year, and just wasn't worth my time to reload at the time. I could buy a box of factory Hornadays and still be shooting that box after two years. Later I got to fooling around with reloads in the .450, but that's another story (mainly price of ammo) Still have not tried any of the pointed bullets yet, but will. The .444 shoots pretty flat with standard bullets, and with pointed bullets is good for at least 275 yards accurately.
gary
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  #16  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:12 PM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

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Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
recoil on the .444 using 265 grain bullets isn't all that bad. Kinda like shooting 180 grain bullets out of a 30-06 in an eight pound rifle. Now they are not exactly fun to shoot off a bench, but if your shooting off hand they are not all that bad. Just put the gun tight into your shoulder and sorta lean into it. Let the rifle do it's recoil while working the lever at the sametime. In this position, I'll click off all the rounds the rifle holds without a hitch. The .450 is another story. It'll beat you up silly off the bench, and even with a bunny bag between you and the butt stock (took me three days to finally get it zeroed in!) But I also shoot Speer 400 grain bullets in it. The factory loads are still rather stiff, and maybe a touch hotter than the same bullet in a 45-70. I honestly think the .338 Marlin might be the ticket here. Reduced recoil, and still hit pretty hard.

As for the .444 on bears. A black bear for sure, but I'm not real sure I'd want to hunt big bears with one. I carried one for several years on my fishing trips, but after hearing about a fishing guide getting mauled by a male grizzley while carrying one I moved up a notch. She was probably using 265 grain bullets, and the 330 grain bullets hit much harder. Still I know that if I hit him at 60 feet with a 400 grain bullet at 1900fps, he's done.
gary

I'm definitely NOT saying I would choose a .444 as a bear stopper. .375 H&H yes, even a .340 Weatherby is a better choice. My point was that the guide acknowledged that the .444 wasn't useful beyond "stopping range" while so many other rounds are.
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  #17  
Old 10-06-2012, 11:51 AM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

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Originally Posted by Buano View Post
I'm definitely NOT saying I would choose a .444 as a bear stopper. .375 H&H yes, even a .340 Weatherby is a better choice. My point was that the guide acknowledged that the .444 wasn't useful beyond "stopping range" while so many other rounds are.
I never ever want to shoot a grizzley bear, but when you meet that 600lb. male face to face on a back trail you often have no choice. I was (still am) very comfortable with the .444, but also know it limitations. I did the shotgun thing the first couple times out (3" lion slugs), but always found myself looking over my shoulder.. After doing some testing on a target set at 60 feet from me (five feet high) I found I could put four 265 grain bullets in an area the size of a half dollar standing up (I later got the groups better). I got similar results with the 300 grain Speers, and about 25% bigger with the 330 grain Corbons shooting as fast as I could work the action and still sighting it on the target area. Four hits in the sternum equales about 10,000lb. of energy! And the 300 grain Speer bullet has a much heavier build than regular 44 mag bullets. (300grain bullet at 2200fps). I load mine to 2100fps, so the energy will be a little less. I never trusted a bolt action rifle for a series of fast shooting at 50 to 60 feet in the panic mode.
gary
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  #18  
Old 10-08-2012, 06:57 PM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

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Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
I never trusted a bolt action rifle for a series of fast shooting at 50 to 60 feet in the panic mode.
gary
There in lies one of the major advantages of the lever rifle. You can get shots off fast enough to make someone think your shooting a semi. That's why lots of those Alaska fellas tote a lever gun. It only makes sense however is it's stone cold reliable. I'll say it again... save your receipt if you buy a new one.
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  #19  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:14 PM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Vote here for 45-70 it has taken many of hogs and none of them took a second step.
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  #20  
Old 10-09-2012, 08:25 AM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

i would go with the 45-70. marin makes a good rifle and i would def put a red dot on it. its going to be much faster to get on target if one of those hogs gets to charging you then any thing els
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  #21  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:38 AM
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Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

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Originally Posted by Mike 338 View Post
There in lies one of the major advantages of the lever rifle. You can get shots off fast enough to make someone think your shooting a semi. That's why lots of those Alaska fellas tote a lever gun. It only makes sense however is it's stone cold reliable. I'll say it again... save your receipt if you buy a new one.
Boy you hit the nail right on the head!! Thats why I said to look for a Marlin built lever gun, but then I'm also hung up on Savage 99's! If I were in Alaska and wanted a good lever gun to at least slow down the neighbors, I'd also consider hunting up a Savage 99 in .358 Winchester.
gary
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