Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Chatting and General Stuff > General Discussion

General Discussion Must wear red or OD green socks to participate. I can't see your socks, please be honest.


Reply

.444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8  
Old 10-03-2012, 02:07 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: greenwood, IN
Posts: 3,645
Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARPERC View Post
Agree Marlin likely stronger than the Winchester, but the Marlin feels more than the listed 1lb heavier to me. Especially if one gets into the Timber model with 18.5 inch barrel ported. Agree stay away from 240 HP, and the 275 Barnes is a great choice. The 300 Barnes is a bit more of the same, though I've only shot those in 44 mag rifles.
never seen the 300 grain barnes bullets! I like the Speers, and they come with the correct canalure. I have a guide gun in .450 that's ported, and the blast is almost scarey! I'd love to have a guide gun in .444 that's ported, but think they only built them for a couple years. Wish they'd have done the Marlins in .405 Winchester.
gary

Last edited by Trickymissfit; 10-03-2012 at 02:07 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-03-2012, 02:49 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 805
Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Although all 3 choices you mention will do the job, and the .444 is probably the best of the three, I think there are better choices for what you want to do. If you want a lever-gun extraordinaire, I would suggest a Browning BLR in .308 with a scope in the 1.5-6x24 range. This would give you a much larger choice or loaded ammunition and components than any of the cartridges you are considering, plenty of knock-down for close-shots while having the capacity for longer-range shooting should the opportunity present itself.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:49 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,661
Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
never seen the 300 grain barnes bullets! I like the Speers, and they come with the correct canalure. I have a guide gun in .450 that's ported, and the blast is almost scarey! I'd love to have a guide gun in .444 that's ported, but think they only built them for a couple years. Wish they'd have done the Marlins in .405 Winchester.
gary
I haven't looked in quite awhile, but I just did, the 300 grain Barnes I was referring to apparently no longer advertised. Maybe mine are the last 50 left. It's essentially the 275 a little longer good flat point. We haven't used the 44's much for awhile, but used to load a coffee can full for the kids to shoot camping. Your point about the cannelure being correct is a good one. When the Sierra 300's came out we added another cannelure with the old CH tool, pretty easy but another step. The Sierras a bit hard, the Hornady XTP, a bit soft, but we also have gravitated to the Speers. All worked fine so more of a relative assessment than a dig at either.Hopefully the OP doesn't find this to far from topic intention just to flesh out original answer a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:10 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: greenwood, IN
Posts: 3,645
Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

the Browning BLR is a great rifle, but kinda pricey for what you get. Also if your looking at the .444 or 45-70 the bullet selection is almost always blunt or rubber tipped. Either one works just fine in a tubed magazine. But a 30-30 is another story of course. For me it would be a Savage 99 in .358 Winchester (both are out of production last I heard)

The nice thing about the 45-70 and .444 is that when you shoot something, it's down right there. But on the othrhand neither one is for the recoil shy. I personally like the .450 much better than the 45-70, but also have come to dread pulling the trigger! Where as the .444 recoil is like a very stiff 3" 12 gauge round. Might also want to look at the .338 Marlin
gary
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:40 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 805
Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
the Browning BLR is a great rifle, but kinda pricey for what you get. Also if your looking at the .444 or 45-70 the bullet selection is almost always blunt or rubber tipped. Either one works just fine in a tubed magazine. But a 30-30 is another story of course. For me it would be a Savage 99 in .358 Winchester (both are out of production last I heard)

The nice thing about the 45-70 and .444 is that when you shoot something, it's down right there. But on the othrhand neither one is for the recoil shy. I personally like the .450 much better than the 45-70, but also have come to dread pulling the trigger! Where as the .444 recoil is like a very stiff 3" 12 gauge round. Might also want to look at the .338 Marlin
gary

I agree. I simply have a hard time seeing anyone buying a gun that's no fun to shoot and which doesn't have huge advantages in other areas to make up for the recoil. (A .375 H&H isn't fun to shoot but it stops dangerous game.) This is why I suggested a BLR in .308 as an alternative. An other option, if a large bullet is the goal, is to go to shotgun slugs out of something like a Mossberg 500 Trophy Slugster. Slugs in a modern rifled shotgun will give you 1.5-2" groups at 100 yards with much less shoulder abuse than the guns initially proposed. My slug-gun is good for 200-250 yards.

On the last guided hunt I was on, my guide carried a .444 lever gun as a charging bear stopper. Before we went out we agreed that if he saw something he wanted to shoot that was out a ways I would hand him my rifle. The dual problems with the 3 guns initially suggested are recoil that makes the guns difficult to shoot accurately & bullets that drop like bricks.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-04-2012, 05:16 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SD
Posts: 429
Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Seems to me that a 45/70 with a 300g loaded at 2000fps ought to kill any of your pigs and goats. I don't think He will be using the 500g Elephant loads that these things will shoot. Bullet drop out to 125-150 yards is not a big factor and if you use iron sights that's about all you will shoot anyway. A ballistic plex scope will allow shooting out to 300yards or so...maybe more

I have shot groups with my 1895 Marlin Cowboy that you can cover with a quarter at 100 yards. My GBL is a little different kritter but it still shoots pretty well. It is getting a 2-7 Burris ballistic plex.

I have never used a 30-30 or 444 but I can tell you that if you shoot a deer with a 300g 45/70 you won't have to look far for it and a blind man could follow the blood trail the few yards to where the dead animal with the large hole in it is.

I guess the point is that you can load a 300g bullet in a 45/70 all the way from subsonic to 2200fps+ or so and tailor it to your needs and amount of recoil you want. Ammo and components are way easier to get at least here in the USA.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:03 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: greenwood, IN
Posts: 3,645
Re: .444 vs 45-70 vs 30-30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buano View Post
I agree. I simply have a hard time seeing anyone buying a gun that's no fun to shoot and which doesn't have huge advantages in other areas to make up for the recoil. (A .375 H&H isn't fun to shoot but it stops dangerous game.) This is why I suggested a BLR in .308 as an alternative. An other option, if a large bullet is the goal, is to go to shotgun slugs out of something like a Mossberg 500 Trophy Slugster. Slugs in a modern rifled shotgun will give you 1.5-2" groups at 100 yards with much less shoulder abuse than the guns initially proposed. My slug-gun is good for 200-250 yards.

On the last guided hunt I was on, my guide carried a .444 lever gun as a charging bear stopper. Before we went out we agreed that if he saw something he wanted to shoot that was out a ways I would hand him my rifle. The dual problems with the 3 guns initially suggested are recoil that makes the guns difficult to shoot accurately & bullets that drop like bricks.
recoil on the .444 using 265 grain bullets isn't all that bad. Kinda like shooting 180 grain bullets out of a 30-06 in an eight pound rifle. Now they are not exactly fun to shoot off a bench, but if your shooting off hand they are not all that bad. Just put the gun tight into your shoulder and sorta lean into it. Let the rifle do it's recoil while working the lever at the sametime. In this position, I'll click off all the rounds the rifle holds without a hitch. The .450 is another story. It'll beat you up silly off the bench, and even with a bunny bag between you and the butt stock (took me three days to finally get it zeroed in!) But I also shoot Speer 400 grain bullets in it. The factory loads are still rather stiff, and maybe a touch hotter than the same bullet in a 45-70. I honestly think the .338 Marlin might be the ticket here. Reduced recoil, and still hit pretty hard.

As for the .444 on bears. A black bear for sure, but I'm not real sure I'd want to hunt big bears with one. I carried one for several years on my fishing trips, but after hearing about a fishing guide getting mauled by a male grizzley while carrying one I moved up a notch. She was probably using 265 grain bullets, and the 330 grain bullets hit much harder. Still I know that if I hit him at 60 feet with a 400 grain bullet at 1900fps, he's done.
gary
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC