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300 Varminter Update

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Unread 04-17-2008, 02:50 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Potomac River
Posts: 5,070
Yesterday as I was unloading groceries and taking them into the house, a car drove down the street and then turned around and parked at the house across the street from me. A silver haired lady got out and went up to the neighbor's house and a man stayed in the car. He had a set of Virginia plates that read "USMC1" and they were the "Silver Star" edition. I walked across the street and told him that this was an "Army Only" street and we didn't allow any jarheads to park here. He looked at me and laughed and I laughed and went back to taking my groceries in the house.

He was old enough to have served in Korea (as my father did) and I went out of my way to give him the respect that he had earned and deserved for his deeds. And that is how I see the world. Respect is earned by deeds not words.
The Smokin Fur Rifle Club

Unread 04-17-2008, 03:09 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW Texas
Posts: 330
243 is very competitive with the 300 varminter


I like your setup. For a flat shooting mid range rig it carrys a load of varmint killing power. But you could set up a 243 with 55-70 gr bullets and shoot just as flat and have no more wind drift.

The 110 hornady BC is 0.290. Noslers 55gr 243 is 0.276 and the 70 gr is 0.310. With equal barrel length, I think the 70 gr in a 243 Win would be nearly as fast as your 110 and the 55gr could be driven faster. True the 110 carrys twice the killing power. But is no better in the wind or for drop.

If you set the 243 up with a 105 Amax or the 7mm WSM with the 162 Amax, you will have less wind drift than any of the above. In fact you can set up many combs that will be better. Don't we all agree that drift is the limiting factor on hits past 500 yds?

I know you are building one for the 208 Amax. So you see the advantages of a higher BC.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just pointing out the way things look to me.

Best wishes...V911
Unread 04-17-2008, 04:09 PM
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: El Reno, OK
Posts: 1,497
Varminter911, you are lost on this conversation man, not cause you are wrong in any way, oh no its cause you are speaking the truth and he just wont listen to it, TRUST ME

all he needs to do is spend about 5 minutes in a moderate wind at 500yds shooting pdogs with that 300 of his and a 243 shooting 105 Amax's and he wont be able to lie to himself anymore.

But then again apparently he lives in the one spot where apparently you can shoot long range but there is no wind

we have all tried to help him, repeatedly, but its like ice skatin up hill man, it just aint worth it.

at least you know what works well

Steve Elmenhorst
Third Generation Shooting Supply
"Products for shooters, by shooters"
monday-friday 8:30-5:30 CST
Unread 04-17-2008, 04:39 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 4,690

You posting about the "300 Varminter" is like hanging two cats by the tail over a clothesline over 3-4 pit bulls. Plus with you being one of the cats! Right now they are just slobbering and waiting for the kill.

There are some here just waiting for every post by you on that gun, so they can jump out ridicule, egg you on, or say why that won't work. If it is not a big case with high BC bullet then it will not work. By God, they have got a 20 lb sledge and they are going to beat hell out of every dang square peg and they will go into that round hole come hell or high water. Who cares if a square peg is not the right tool.

Now they are just baiting a little bit right now and egging you on to keep posting. Just wait until you get the gun, try to post results and then let the real fun begin with them again telling you why it is all wrong, blah blah blah.

It is really interesting and funny, that right now many of those "pit bulls" are in a very, very quiet mode (like little church mice) that an East Coast gunsmith (who God forbid does not post here) can build a ULR rifle as evidenced by Joel Russos recent group. I think they are still grasping their chests, turning blue and hollering for nitro pills!

Most do not realize Bruce Baer and others have been building ULR hunting and BR guns long before it caught on west of the Mississsippi other than Dan Lilja and a very few others. Bruce shot a 375-408 in comp at the world open last year while others were just thinking about it or had not even heard about it.

Lot of guys build really good guns like Shawn, Kirby, Bruce Baer, John Myers, Mark King, Darrel Holland and even Richard Franklin (say it ain't so!). Some build both comp, LR, ULR and even pure "make em fly" varmint guns and some build just ULR hunting guns. There is room for all and all have different uses and are good for what they were designed to do.

"Respect is won by deeds not word", is accurate, and it is also lost by words and games!

Relax and enjoy the variety!

Unread 04-18-2008, 12:35 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,651
Bountyhunter, thanks for the post.

As I mentioned, I don't let them bother me. I love the post by Mr. Lerch, I guess he's calling me a liar. He acts as if all I shoot is poly tipped bullets and don't understand BC. Hell, I have even said if I am shooting and the wind begins to get bad, I would go to a set up designd around a VLD bullet. I have owned many rifles designed around VLD bullets, I've owned the following rifles and shot the following bullets;

1. 6.5x284 built by Dave. Tooley-Bullet used 139grn Scenar
2. 300 Win Mag-Bullet used 210grn Berger VLD
3. 338 Yogi-built by Dave Tooley-Bullet Used 300 SMK

I know a thing or to about shooting at long range and using VLD, Scenar and SMK type bullets . However, I like to also use rifles that are designed specifically for vaminting and desinged around varmint bullets for maximum spalt factor. It just so happens that the rifles desigend around the varmint bullets worked very well at ranges out to 800 yards and sometimes out to 1000 yards. Sure, when the wind picked up, you had to make a bigger wind correction. I don't know why some on this site continue to do what they do. I guess they have nothing else better to do.

Regarding Mr. JWP475 comments, I just don't wont the post hijacked. Bountyhunter's right, there are guy's out there that have nothing better to do than do exactly what you do. Hey, have fun and if you feel you need to hijack the post, have at it. It will just allow the post to continue to flourish and give Richard Franklin a ton of press.

I have always said the higher BC bullets are better for long range shooting. I never said the 300 Varminter would ever out shoot a rifle using a VLD type bullet. All I said was the 300 Varminter would work very well for it's intended purposes and it has proven that it works very well. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT.

This all started when I said the 300 Varminter could push a 125grn BT at 4000+fps and the 110grn V-Max at 4150fps. Some posted back saying that it could not be done. After reading the post from those guys that were saying it could not be done, I beleived them and thought it was hype. However, I decided to reserch more about Richard Franklin and when I found out what he was all about, I decided to call Richard myself and find out how he had made the combo work. After calling Richard Franklin, it was very obvious he was an awseome rifle builder, his 300 Varminter design was pushing these bullets at over 4000+fps, doing it very accurately and at ranges out to 1000 yards. After hearing all the information from Richard, I ordered one ASAP! It was also later confirmed when a Blog should up on talking about Richards 300 Varminter.

So when a guy like LERCH is calling me a LIAR, that means he is calling Richard Franklin a Liar, Liars and every person who owns a 300 Varminter built by Richard a liar. If that's how LERCH feels, than that's fine. I would just like to know what I lied about?

I have seen what this combo can do and it's awesome for what it's built for.
All I know is Richard has many orders for the 300 Varminter and the orders keep on coming. Once you see it in action, it's awesome to see and watch what it does to varmints.


Unread 04-18-2008, 01:34 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,651
V911, yes I know the advantages of a higher BC bullet and yes I am having a rifle built to shoot the 208grn A-Max. However, that rifle will be used for shots past 800 yards. The 300 Varminter will be used out to 800 yards. I wanted the 300 Varminter built for major splat factor and maximum kill power out to 800 yards.

I've used all sorts of bullets for varminting, and I don't like using the VLD type bullets for varminting under 800 yards. They just don't do what I want, which is blow the varmint into tiny pieces. However, over 800 yards I love the VLD bullets. Also, we do not get much wind in the area we varmint hunt at. Nothing like the wind you guys get in the Mid-West.

I varmint hunt with a bunch of guys, and we have all tried the VLD bullets for varminting. However, since then the majority of us have all gone back to V-Max, Ballistic Tip, Blitzking, ect type bullets for varminting under 800 yards. We are serious varmint hunters, so we love red mist and the flip factor. Once we realized the VLD bullet did not provide the same effect as the poly tipped bullets, it was an easy choice.

Most of our varminting is done from 50 to 400 yards with majority of the long range varminting being done from 400 to 600 yards, with the occational shots out to 700 and 800 yards. We realized the VLD type bullets were not needed for varminting. We were varmint hunting, not in a Benchrest Match. We have a couple of guys who still use the A-Max bullets for varminting, but that's because their rifles were made with fast twist rates, so their rifles don't perform as well with the lighter poly tipped bullets.

And one things for certain too, when we shoot out to 700 and 800 yards, my buddies who are still using the A-Max bullets are not out shooting us. Sure, they might not have to correct for wind as much, but that does not mean a bullet will make you a better shooter. It will just allow you to not have to adjust your windage as much. I love High BC bullets, but you still have to know how to shoot.


Last edited by wildcat; 04-18-2008 at 01:39 AM.
Unread 04-18-2008, 02:11 AM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 77
Wildcat, well said about being a shooter. I've been around guys at the range who talk about there new rifle set up, with the VLD bullet and talk about how much better he's going to shoot than the guy next to him with that little bullet. To latter realize he was just out shot, at 400 yards, all day long buy a guy using a 204 with a 32grn V-Max. This is a true story, I've seen it happen on many occations, and I know some of you have seen it too. Many of you just don't want to talk about it on this site. That would be a major Tabbo. Sure, had the guy with the new rifle and the VLD bullets been a better shot, he would have probably out shot that guy with the 204 and it's little bullet, but he didn't. By the way, the guy that was out shot, was using a custom 6x284 and shooting Sierria 142MK's. I think it's very important to not talk bad or poke fun about someones project, he may just be that guy who out shoots the crap out of you with a lower BC bullet.

Read the post, I am not saying the lighter BC bullet is better, I am saying the shooter was a much better shot, and he knew what he was doing. Even though the other guy had a better set up and better bullet for long range shooting, he was not a good shooter, and his higher BC bullet did not help him.
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