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300 Varminter Update

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Unread 04-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bandon Oregon
Posts: 185
I came to this forum from 24 hour I heard about Kirby’s Allen Mags and wanted to know more, when I got here Kirby was working on his .338 Allen and I liked what I seen, I believe I was the first one or one of the first to order one of his .338’s. And he wasn’t even done testing it.

I don’t shoot bench rest or competition, what I do is hunt elk and I have killed a lot of them and I hunt deer, I have a ranch that has way to many predators on it for my liking so I had Kirby build me his .338 Allen, This gun is simply amassing nothing and I mean nothing is safe on the ranch unless I see fit too not kill it, It flattens elk, deer and the predators don’t stand a chance.

Kirby is building my third rifle now, KIRBYITE!!! No he just builds a nice rifle, I’m sure others do too, I just choose to have Kirby build mine he more like a friend now than my gun smith. And he always helps out with the load development.

Unread 04-21-2008, 07:24 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,598
Patriot44, Wildcat

What part of this post are you 2 have trouble grasping?

04-21-2008, 01:33 PM
Desert Fox
Senior Member
Find Me on the Map Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 336

I have no dog in these fight but I thought I could share some info that I've gathered from a friend of mine, who is close to Richard Franklin. He own and shoot one of these rifle. He also hunt grounhog with Richard a few times a year, and he considered him a close friend. This is what he told me regarding the 300 WSM Varminter. He admitted that, if you want to prolong the life of the brass, you need to load the 125 Nosler with 73 grain of VVN550 at around 3750fps. You can get to over 4K using 75 grain of powder but the brass is toast by 2nd or 3rd firing. His rifle experienced loosening of primer pocket even on one firing with 75 grain of powder when shooting here in California, so he kept his velocity at 3750. He also aluded that Richard toss his brass every 3 firings from his own personal rifle. You can use Remington action on these chambering but velocity must be kept below 3800fps. So there you have it gentlemen. I hope these help clears things up.

Guys, we should be all adult about these. Let's keep it civil and not to denigrate each other. Don't force Len to exercise his nuclear option.
To achieved the maximum possible accuracy, all variables must be removed or at least minimized
range it,check the wind, dial in correction, aim and only one shot
Unread 04-21-2008, 07:25 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,612
I am not taking sides in this because I don't know any of you and haven't been on here in years. But I reread what fiftydriver had to say at the top of the page and can't find anything deserving of this. What he said is correct. Fifty may not have been building rifles very long, but I have for over thirty years and I can't see how any form of a short mag can be safely loaded to those velocities. I can look at a case and tell you about what you can expect out of it. That comes with a lot of experience. Also with a lot of experience you understand that about 90% of what you hear is BS by someone tooting their own rifle. Maybe we all need to get a cold beer and chill out.

I am a short mag fan and love them although I have never hunted with one. I am obviously missing out on some velocity secret someone needs to enlighten me on if you can get strong 300 weatherby velocities out of a short mag in any form. I want to learn the technique so I can apply it to my big 338's. I might get 4000 fps out of my 338-378 with a 200 grain bullet. I have chronographed short mags and they all came in between the '06 case stuff and the standard magnum stuff. I didn't think they were designed to compete velocity wise with the standard mags but fill a short action niche that needed filling. If a guy wanted weatherby velocities why would he buy a short mag in the first place. All my work was done before the short mag came out and I am by no means an expert on the short mag having only chronographed a few. So some of you guys that shoot them all the time tell me what velocities you are getting and are some loads approaching standard mag velocities. I just want some good answers because I am considering a light backpack gun right now and if I can get wby velocities out of a short mag I can save some weight. Short mag guys let me know what they will actually do with good handloads. Thanks in advance.
Predictions are difficult, especially when they involve the future
Unread 04-21-2008, 07:58 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Black Hills,South Dakota
Posts: 669
LTLR, I just chronoed some 190 VLDs in my 300saum this weekend,the results are below but it is from a 27" tube.No pressure signs and easy bolt lift.

59.5 gr H414
LO-2894 (first cold bore shot)


I havent tried any faster,as this load shot five shots slightly under 3" at 600 yds,I was pretty happy.
The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms -Samuel Adams
Unread 04-21-2008, 08:16 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,855
WOW , I can't believe that I'm keeping up with this thread.

this is almost as good as pitting to 15yr olds against eachother in my KravMaga class!!
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
Molon Labe
Unread 04-21-2008, 08:34 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: on the rifle range in Utah
Posts: 2,704
Originally Posted by Patriot44 View Post
5. Your Rifles have never won any 1000 yards Competitions.Patriot44
Whoa there cowboy. Back that pony up a bit. I've won several 1000 yard competitions around here with a rifle Kirby chambered.

. Your a real class act, however, try that on a site like and see what happens to you. STOP BEING A FREELOADER AND CHEAP WAD! GET YOUR OWN WEB PAGE INSTEAD OF USING THIS SITE FOR FREE ADVERTISING. Very un-professional.


Sounds to me like someone has been harboring some bad feelings for Kirby for awhile and they're starting to fester.
Perhaps this thread has run it's course?
Find it
Range it
Click it
Pull it
Dump it

If it's not far, it's boring.
Unread 04-21-2008, 08:40 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 215
Wow, this thread has turned from bad to worse. I don't have a dog in this fight either, I'm just trying to figure out some things that have been claimed for my own knowledge and am sharing what I find. I've tried to stay neutral about this arguement but Patriot's comments have pushed me over the edge. I do not think that putting information out that a factory chambered cartridge can be pushed to those extreme pressures and velocities is even remotely intelligent and is completely unsafe. I don't care if you want to do it, especially if you know and understand the risks involved but to not admit those risks even when confronted is unethical. I'd call anyone on this be it Wildcat, Kirby, Shawn, Nate or Len and would expect the same done to me.

The personal attacks of Patriot on Kirby and anyone that disagrees with him is sickening. I don't care who you are or who you don't like or like there is no call for this on this forum or any. They are stating facts and opinions on the subject not personally attacking you or even Richard Franklin. They are questioning Richard Franklins methods and saying that what he is promoting is can be unsafe. I've been on his website and could not find anything that said that loading this way in a stock gun is extremely unsafe (it will chamber in any production 300 WSM chambered rifle, correct?). I'm sure Richard knows this and wouldn't advocate this load in any rifle that was not designed to be shot with this load, BUT he doesn't say it on the website or in the short blog I was able to find on 6mmBR. The people with the knowledge to point this out should point this out no matter who says it, so that some one without the knowledge won't mistakenly try it without knowing any better. Now back to the personal attack on Kirby, I only know him from this site and haven't had the good fortune of even shooting one of his rifles yet. I know that Kirby does take the time to visit this site and not only tell us about his hunts, projects and work but also will offer advice to those who ask for it. I find that impressive that he cares enough about the sport and the people in it to help out those of us who are just getting started and those who are farther along. While Patriot only seems to be involved on this site to start fights, jump into those arguements that aren't of concern to him and escalate them. I will be sending a message to Len asking for Patriot 44 to be banned and invite all who feel that same as I do to do the same. It is people like Patriot that destroy good forums and I don't want that to happen to this site, at least not anymore than what Patriot has done to it already.
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