I don't ever remember Kirby telling anyone to load to 87,000 psi in one of his cartridges:confused: maybe I'm wrong here but I think that the point being made was that there is a gunsmith out there telling people it is okay to load to this level and it is safe. I don't care what action you have, 87,000 is way unsafe. Actually, if you are using a custom action and it does happen to fail, you will take your whole freaking head off instead of just half of your face because chances are the custom action will fail at a much higher pressure than a factory one. This way you will really get the whole shot.
Any idiot can load any cartidge to an unsafe level. be it a 338 Allen Mag. or a .308 Win. pressure is pressure and if I see anyone using a 300 varmiter, or any other cartridge, runing those pressures, I am heading for cover. I have kept quiet so far, as I have not seen any real factual data on the rifle from wildcat or the opposition, except speculation on both sides.
I will say that after seeing those numbers I have now formed an opinion on this rifle design. I know the last thing we need here is another one of those but here goes.
I wish wildcat the best of luck with his rifle. I have no doubt it will blow the hell out of anything wildcat places the bullet into varmit wise. But, Wildcat, please be careful when working up to your max. load. 3,600-3,700 will still blow up a varmit with authority, And you will still have a face. Good luck with your rifle. AL
Oh, and don't listen to anyone put down your idea of a good rifle. Any rifle that shoots straight is a good one in my book. I don't care what the bc, or sd, or es, or fps, or whatever else you want to talk about, as long as you enjoy shooting it who cares!
you cant dump'em if you don't pull the trigger!
Last edited by alexkeyser; 04-20-2008 at 10:28 PM.
P44, thanks for your support. When I made my first post about this project, I never thought it would draw so much attention. I never wanted to argue with anyone or try to prove anyone wrong. Like I said, the only thing I am guilty of is being excited and posting too much about my build. All I said was the 300 Varminter will push the 110grn V-Max and 125grn BT at 4000+fps.
Kirby, had a problem, because on my first post about the 300 Varminter, I failed to mention a regular 300 WSM could never get this type of performance unless it was designed with custom componets. All of a sudden the topic went from rather it could push a 110grn V-Max or 125grn BT at 4000fps, to being, the 300 Varminter is an un-safe designe and Richard should have designed his 300 varminter differently so the average joe would not think his regular 300 WSM would perform like the 300 Varminter. I was upset that people were saying this was an unsafe build, so I tried to defend the 300 Varminter build as best I could. However, it did not matter what I said, I was wrong and the others were right.
Then finally!!!6mmBR.com allowed a blog about the 300 Varminter to be put on it's web page and the blog talked about it's success with varmint hunters. I said to myself, finally, maybe this will proof that it's a safe and successful rifle cartridge combo. However, it did nothing. I was still met with hostility, with some saying proof this and proof that. I said please, read the blog on 6mmBR.com and read what Richard has to say. You would think that Richard's own words would cause these guys to stop. Oh no, they kept on going, so I kept on defending and that was my only mistake. I should have realized, I was in a losing battle with some of these guys. However, I decided I would not let them bully me, and I would continue to post and talk about the project for those who might be interested. I posted information that other 300 Varminters were giving me regarding veloctiy, field testing, brass life, pressure issues and accuracy. This to, was met with hostility and these same people were questioning anything and hijacking my posts. Anyhow, it has come to this now. I can't even post, on this site, without someone making a smart ass remark about my builds. All because I am excited about a build that has been proofen to shoot lighter .30 cal bullets at 4000fps accurately and safely.
I have also decided I will not post any data info when I get my rifle. BountyHunter is right, No matter what I say, it wont be good enough.
Thanks for all your post. I will be safe, and I will work up to the maximum load. I know what I am doing and will be very careful.
I am done with this specific post. It has been fun, however, it is pointless to go on. It has been successfully hijacked by those who felt it neccessary to do so. I will enjoy my build and have fun with it.
Where is the Proof that 60,000+ PSI is Safe??? Sfe means to remove 100& of the dangers not 99% As you say others words should have prooven the safety, yet words or nto Pressure DATA, At thee Quick Load estimate of 87,000+ PSI you are in dangerous territory no matter how strong the action is... The catistrapic case failure you get will be an expensive education...
range it,check the wind, dial in correction, aim and only one shot
Supermag I came up with nearly 73K PSI with the 110 using a 30 inch barrel to get to 4000 with vv550. I do not know how much a slow twist barrel like they are using will lessen pressure.
I am not too sure about my start pressure setting it may be a little low. I do know that using these settings I have blanked primers at pressures predicted to be substantially less than 73K PSI. I would suspect that the actual pressure would be higher than predicted by my program because of this setting.
I admit that I know just enough to be dangerous.....but dangerous at ever extending distances.
Nice try but again, your arguement is an uneducated joke.
I build Allen Magnum rifles, I have FULLY tested them in many different receivers from Rem 700s to Savage 111s to Stillers, to Bats, to Bordens to Nesikas to Lawtons to my own Raptor.
In most of the top end barrels out there. I have a stack of barrels that weighs well over 200 lbs JUST IN MY TEST BARRELS.
I fully develope my wildcats, test them in temps from below zero to 100 degrees with every appropriate powder for each chambering.
I find the safe starting loads, I find the safe top end loads which are WELL under max or anywhere near close to loosening primer pockets in any way and generally will get 6-7 firings per case with no problem.
I give my customers load data that is 100% proven comfortable in any temp ranges.
I know for a fact that if my customers use my loads as recommended or load my wildcats to the velocity ranges I tell them to with the bullets I tell them to, baring a bore obstruction, there is no chance of any kind that my Allen Magnums can be dangerous in any way at all.
You see, I recommend loads that are well off red line. I do not use custom receivers just so I can add another 10,000 psi to a standard load. I do not recommend red line loads of any kind.
I know that there are no other rifles out there that can chamber my Allen Magnums that are not made by me or made by other smiths that I trust 100% and I know that any recommended load that I offer will be 100% safe, no questions asked.
That can not be said for a 300 WSM loaded with a 125 gr BTip to +80K in pressure when loaded in a Rem 700 or Win M70.
If you can not see that, which obviosuly you can not, I hate to say it but your a fool and you prove it everytime you open your mouth or put your fingers to the keyboard.
I ensure that my rifles are proven safe before they ship. That if used as I recommend will never have any safety issues of any kind in any conditions.
Now, could a customer use my rifles dangerously. Humans are humans, thats why we have a 300 WSM pushing 125 gr Btips to 4000 fps. Can I control that no.
Can Remington ensure that all the customers shooting the 30-06 will not shoot handloads that are to high in pressure. Again, your arguements are laughable and as weak as any I have heard from you.
I build rifles, my rifles are 100% safe or I would not be in business. If my rifles are used as I recommend, they will provide the owner with extremly high performance that is 100% proven safe in all conditions.
Are all my customers expert riflemen, to be honest, most are for a matter a fact. Those that are not are just as welcome to have one of my rifles because without question, by the time they get their rifle, they will be extremly well versed in every aspect of loading for my wildcats.
As far as fireforming, that arguement is also off the table as I am set up or setting up to offer formed cases to my customers for all my wildcat chamberings.
It is my responsibility, if I am going to design a wildcat round and offer it to the public that I make DAMN sure its safe in every way and I have done just that. It is irresponsible to recommend any loads that may pose a danger if chambered in any rifle chambered for that round.
Why you can not see this tells volumes of your lack of judgement.
As far as other web sites, Why would I go over to a bench rest sight? Why would I go over to a sight that focuses on military type rifles? Why would I go to a web site that is for conventional rifles?
I build long range big game and varmint HUNTING rifles. This is LONGRANGEHUNTING.COM. There are thousands of guys on here that have the same mind set. I believe last Len reported there were over 6000 members here on LRH.
I do not build BR rifles. I do not specialize in military spec rifles, I build ultra performance, long range HUNTING rifles. If you can not understand that, again, your lack of mental capacity is simply amazing.
Also, I run a one man opperation, from start to finish, from office work to supply runs to building rifles to testing rifles to shipping rifles, its me and me alone. Only thing not done by me is case forming which my Dad has taken over simply so that I can offer that to my customers. If he did not, I would not have time to do it and I could not be able to offer that service.
Simply put, I have about enough spear time to focus on one web chat room and I like the folks here and I believe I have some experience to offer that is specific to LRH. I come on LRH as a fellow member, not to sell rifles. If you have read any of my +4200 posts, you would quickly realize that VERY few of my posts are about my wildcats in comparision to my total postings. Most of those that are talk about performance testing, accuracy testing and field testing results, just like everyone else that has a custom rifle does on this web page.
Only difference, its my name on the chambering and that bothers you for some reason.
I enjoy LRH.com. I enjoy the posters. I enjoy reading about others projects, I enjoy reading about others success stories, I learn from others failures or mishaps, and if possible, I like to be able to help other shooters if at all possible. For some reason that really bothers a few out there.
Those that agree with me had these opinions long before I came along for the most part. To say that they are my drones is simply disrespectful to them, to Len and makes you sound like an *****.
If you think I am picking on Wildcat, again, your simply uneducated on the subject, again. Again, I could care less what Wildcat does, I am trying to protect that new shooter that does not have the experience to read these numbers and realize they are not safe in all 300 WSM. How you can not agree with that is beyond me but again, speaks volumes toward you and your desire to attack me simply for the sake of doing it.
And finally, you could never offend me, in fact your comments are pretty much meaningless to me as they are unfounded, uneducated, narrow minded and pretty much just pathetic.
I would never tell anyone to leave LRH, I feel that the site looses alot if anyone leaves but if you feel its best, best luck to you but I suspect you will not leave.
Wildcat once said he was leaving for good. I said the same thing to him and then stated I bet it would not be a month before he was back talking about his project 300 WSM. It was not even three weeks and he was back doing the same thing, over and over, week after week, he brings this up on this board to rub it in the nose of dozens of LRH members that recommended strongly against this project. After the first discussion, we pretty much all agreed to leave it alone and see how the rifle shot when it got here.
Then Wildcat would bring it up again and most of us let if go. Then WIldcat would wait and bring it up again and get a couple more responses, then he would bring it up again and he would get alot more response and another pissin match just the same as the original. Then things would die down again for a week or so, then guess what, Wildcat would bring it up again, for what reason?
And he would keep bring it up until he got the response he was looking for. He knew for a fact that the large majority of LRH members do not agree that his project is the best for what he wants to do with the rifle. It may work, it may work well but there are hundreds of combos that far outperform it in nearly every catagory, energy, bullet drop, bullet energy, wind drift, time of flight, everything.
Everytime the topic dies off, WILDCAT brings it back up. Not because he is excited but simply to stir the pot again. That is what puts most on edge.
So before you think poor little Wildcat is getting picked on. He is getting exactly what he expects to get nad he has done it over and over for months.
If you do not agree with the advice given to you, no problem, just do not continue to rub it in the face of those that tried to help with their recommendations and hard earned experience and extremely expensive testing. That is disrespectful. No one would ever say he HAS to do what we recommended, but when he continues come back time after time to put it up our nose that his idea is the best out there, it gets OLD. When you have a group of very experienced guys that know better, its very hard to sit and take it, especially when there is a chance that a lesser educated or experienced new shooter may hear these numbers and put themselves in a dangerous situation, we will certainly speak up, every time.
There is NOTHING, repeat NOTHING that Wildcat or Richard Franklin could ever say that disproves this simple comment, there is a very real danger issue to spread out information that a 300 WSM can be laoded to 4000 fps with a 125 gr bullet when SAAMI specs limit this chambering to 3500 fps with this bullet weight. With thousands of factory rifles out there that can chamber this extremly overloaded ammo, this is simply fool hardy and I will tell Wildcat that, I will tell Richard that and anyone else out there the same thing.
If Shawn Carlock said he loaded his 338 Edge with a 300 gr SMK to 3300 fps I would say the exact same thing to him even though I hold Shawn at the highest level if respect and view him as a friend. Still, if he was spreading comments like this, I would have the same view. This is simply an example.
Again, if you can not see this, simply proves your lack of experience and ability to accept the truth.
Spin, please, your out of your mind if you think this is spin. Its the flat trueth, facts, honest, unbiased experience. Hardly spin.
Take care, good luck where ever you go but I will leave you with the same comment I did Wildcat. We will see how good your word is. I suspect you will be back in less then a month as well. I bet you will not be able to help yourself from responding to this post. Talk about spin, lets here it because thats all your poking out, only bad thing is its not even good spin.
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