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300 gr SMKs consistancy dropping out of Supersonic velocity...

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Unread 06-26-2008, 03:08 PM
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300 gr SMKs consistancy dropping out of Supersonic velocity...

Simple question:

For those that have tested the 300 gr SMK in any 338 caliber chambering, how many have proven that this bullet will remain consistantly accurate through the transonic section of bullet flight?

In addition to that, how many have seen this consistancy remain in the 1/2 moa range well beyond the drop below super sonic velocity?

Your actual experience and experience wanted.

Thanks for your time and information, very curious to hear the results you have gotten. Once I get some information, I will disclose the reason why I ask this question.
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

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  •   #2  
    Unread 06-28-2008, 12:11 PM
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    looks like you are just going to have to tell us what is up your sleeve
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    Unread 06-28-2008, 02:33 PM
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    ok, fair enough. There was an article in the last issue of Varmint Hunter Magazine by Gordy Gritters. Its about his 2 mile shooting.

    In the article he talks about his new 33 cal magnum, basically the same as a 338 Lapua Improved, nearly identical to my 338 AX. He lists he is getting the 300 gr SMK to 3000 fps which in a proper barrel length would seem to be a pretty mild load so no problem there from me.

    My problem comes when he started talking about the groups he and another shooting companion were getting at 3600 yards. His claim is that he put 16 shots into an 18" group at that range, thats 1/2 moa accuracy.

    That alone would be a serious accomplishment but what I have a problem with is that in all the testing I have done with the 300 gr SMK, in rounds such as the 338 RUM, 338 Edge, 338 Lapua, 338-378 Wby, 338 Allen Xpress, 338 Kahn and my big 338 Allen Magnum, in every case, every single case I have tested these rounds to see where the consistancy of the bullet drops off.

    In every case, it happens within 100 yards of where Exbal predicts these bullets will drop out of super sonic velocity at my elevation. IN EVERY CASE. I have tested this with 1-7, 1-9, 1-10, 1-11.25 and 1-12 twist barrels and it seems to make no difference what the RPM level of the bullet is, when it drops below super sonic velocity, the consistancy of the 300 gr SMK is simply gone.

    I am not saying the accuracy degrades, it flat out is gone. With my 338 AX or the 338 Kahn loaded to the exact same or slightly higher velocity with the same bullet in the same twist rate barrel, they will drop out of super sonic velocity aroung 2450 yards at my elevation. We have tested this extensively. At 2300 yards, these chamberings in good conditions will easily shoot under 1 moa, generally under 3/4 moa and at times less then 1/2 moa.

    At 2600 yards, there simply is no accuracy and it is even difficult to see bullet impacts. If you do see them, it is not uncommon to see them land in 20-30 FEET groups.

    With my 338 AM, the 300 gr SMK can be loaded to a level where it stays super sonic out to around 2800 yards. Again, I have tested the consistancy of this chambering with this bullet. AT 2700 yards, consistancy is great, hits and impacts are accurate and predictable to place from drop charts.

    Set a target out at 2900 yards, same results as before, if you can see the bullet impacts they are wildly spread with no real consistancy at all.

    I can jump up to the +.9 BC wildcat prototype 265 gr AT RBBT and load it to 3540 fps and accuracy will remain out to just over 3000 yards, the farthest I have tested so far. Exbal predicts that this bullet will drop below super sonic velocity at around 3150-3200 yards and I am confident this bullet would have the same fate as the SMK as it drops out of super sonic velocity.

    So, I simply had to call Gordy out on this one, e-mailed him and asked what magic he was using to get these bullets to hold 1/2 moa for 1000 yards AFTER they have dropped below super sonic velocity?

    I have not heard back from him yet. I suspect the response will come in one of two forms from my dealings with him in the past and what I have heard from others about the man.

    1. He will not respond which in my mind will tell me there is a bit of stretching the trueth going on here.

    2. He will personally attack me, my experience levels and the rifles I build.

    I fully expect it to be the latter of the two.

    He has posted several articles over the last few issues of VH magazine which have really raised some questions from not only me but many other truely experienced long range shooters. The best gunsmiths in the world can not spit in the face of ballistic laws or physics but it seems Gordy believes he can.

    Basically from his writings, as long as you have enough moa adjustment to put the x on the spot, you can accurately put bullets on that spot with great accuracy. I know it to be a fact that is not true and many on this board do as well.

    I figured it was just time to call him out on his comments and hopefully get a respectful reply from him debating the topic as my e-mail to him was very respectful.

    Anyway, that is my reasoning for the question. If any of you have seen this same magic with the 300 gr SMK remaining fully stabilized after dropping out of super sonic velocity I would be very interested to hear about it. I understand there are always anomolies where strange things occur, but keeping this bullet accurate to 1/2 moa for not 3, not 5, not 10 but for 16 shots at 3600 yards, that is something I would have to see first hand to believe.

    Not on video either.

    he also made claims that they hit 3-4 prairie dogs at this type of range but none were recovered for proof. Convienent. If you can out 16 shots into 1/2 moa at that range and you were hunting dogs for the entire weekend, not getting a picture of a killed P. Dog would be nothing but a failure in my opinion. But again, in my opinion, we are dealing in a relm of ferry's and pixie dust!!!
    Kirby Allen(50)

    Allen Precision Shooting
    Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

    Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

    Web Page:
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    Unread 06-28-2008, 07:24 PM
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    I'm all ears on this one!

    HEBREWS 13:8
    Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
    also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
    It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
    to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!!

    ---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!
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    Unread 06-28-2008, 09:20 PM
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    Join Date: Jul 2004
    Location: Texas
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    Now I have to buy the magazine and read this one!!!!

    I'm from Texas and we have elevated bull s#!ting to an art form,
    but this one is a little tall for me. It sounds like claims of gas mileage
    (allways higher than anyone else can possibly get by 3 or 4 miles per gallon).

    Or maybe he just has a bad range finder.

    If he does reply please share it with us.

    "PRESS ON"
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    Unread 06-28-2008, 09:39 PM
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    Location: Pennsyltucky
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    his rangefinder is probably reading in feet, not yards. i'll bet in the winter, when a cold snap rolls into his neck of the woods, it's 5 degrees colder at his house than anyone else. and yes, in the summer, it's always 5 degrees warmer!
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    Unread 06-28-2008, 09:45 PM
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: Columbia, MO
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    Does anyone have a small 338 caliber cartridge? Something like a 338-223? You could load the 300 SMK to maybe 1300 fps and see how it shoots at 100 and 200 yards. Should simulate the transonic buffering or whatever it's called with the bigger 338's at extended range.
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