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View Poll Results: 264 win mag or 7mm mag
264 win mag 100 38.46%
7mm rem mag 160 61.54%
Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

 
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  #36  
Old 10-21-2013, 02:21 PM
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Elkhorn Idaho
Posts: 329
Re: 264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

I have nothing to prove to you or BROZ. You think you know everything and doubt every thing other have done if its not what you have experienced. So take the program and plug in ADI 2225, win mag primer. Bullet seated out to a custom oal with a 460 Weatherby action being able to handle it. Free bore it and moly coat the bullet. The bolt is custom built to handle the size of head. Now go call Brian Litz or you can look it up on the internet why the 7mm cal is superior to the 308 cal. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. but I guess some are ostriches with there head in the sand. Its been called a hot rod... really is that what Boat Tails were called when they came out? John Lazzeroni closed a thread on this sight due to ignorant people that do not know SH!T. We work in this industry when you armchair know it all people were still in diapers.. THE INTERNET HAS MADE YOU PEOPLE EXPERTS OVERNIGHT.. Buy the way the response you gave on form factor a while back proves your ignorance.. you don't know what your talking about! that is fact how can you have a faulty program tell you about ballistics when you can not even figure out case capacity of the cartridge and load I am even talking about? it differs with the COAL and boattail being used DUH! Like I said in the past I am tired of hearing how good you are. I am tired of what caliber is good, I am tired of the same old ignorance you display.
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  #37  
Old 10-21-2013, 02:43 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 5,954
Re: 264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

Quote:
Originally Posted by idaho elk hunter View Post
I have nothing to prove to you or BROZ. You think you know everything and doubt every thing other have done if its not what you have experienced. So take the program and plug in ADI 2225, win mag primer. Bullet seated out to a custom oal with a 460 Weatherby action being able to handle it. Free bore it and moly coat the bullet. The bolt is custom built to handle the size of head. Now go call Brian Litz or you can look it up on the internet why the 7mm cal is superior to the 308 cal. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. but I guess some are ostriches with there head in the sand. Its been called a hot rod... really is that what Boat Tails were called when they came out? John Lazzeroni closed a thread on this sight due to ignorant people that do not know SH!T. We work in this industry when you armchair know it all people were still in diapers.. THE INTERNET HAS MADE YOU PEOPLE EXPERTS OVERNIGHT.. Buy the way the response you gave on form factor a while back proves your ignorance.. you don't know what your talking about! that is fact how can you have a faulty program tell you about ballistics when you can not even figure out case capacity of the cartridge and load I am even talking about? it differs with the COAL and boattail being used DUH! Like I said in the past I am tired of hearing how good you are. I am tired of what caliber is good, I am tired of the same old ignorance you display.
I ask for load and barrel spec and this is what I get? Interesting indeed... It tells me you don't have a load and you are just blowing hot air. What's so hard about providing load info? Broz does have 300 WM load data and also well documented field results. You have a lot of hot air.

Also, please cite specifically anything I have said in this forum that is technically incorrect. I have no idea what you are babbling about.
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:44 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: N.D.
Posts: 2,889
Re: 264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

Quote:
Originally Posted by idaho elk hunter View Post
I have nothing to prove to you or BROZ. You think you know everything and doubt every thing other have done if its not what you have experienced. So take the program and plug in ADI 2225, win mag primer. Bullet seated out to a custom oal with a 460 Weatherby action being able to handle it. Free bore it and moly coat the bullet. The bolt is custom built to handle the size of head. Now go call Brian Litz or you can look it up on the internet why the 7mm cal is superior to the 308 cal. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. but I guess some are ostriches with there head in the sand. Its been called a hot rod... really is that what Boat Tails were called when they came out? John Lazzeroni closed a thread on this sight due to ignorant people that do not know SH!T. We work in this industry when you armchair know it all people were still in diapers.. THE INTERNET HAS MADE YOU PEOPLE EXPERTS OVERNIGHT.. Buy the way the response you gave on form factor a while back proves your ignorance.. you don't know what your talking about! that is fact how can you have a faulty program tell you about ballistics when you can not even figure out case capacity of the cartridge and load I am even talking about? it differs with the COAL and boattail being used DUH! Like I said in the past I am tired of hearing how good you are. I am tired of what caliber is good, I am tired of the same old ignorance you display.
Man you must have gotten ahold of some really good ganja lately man. I'm not in either guys fanclub you are insulting here but they do know their stuff.

As to Lazz., he's a blowhard and has probably lost more business with his antics than he'll gain here by being a sponsor. As to Brain Litz- I really don't care why he blows sunshine up one and not the other; I suspect he likes tighter twist (with standard rates) calibers because he can get a more aggressive profile on the longer bullets and they'll still spin well.

It's really a no- brainer to anyone who doesn't have a cranial-rectal inversion that both 30cal and 7mm can be made to perform well, with the edge going to 30 cal because of weight carrying capabilities; though the average 7mm twist is a bit faster allowing for slightly higher sd bullets to be used- give them both either 9 or 10" twist to be fair and 30 kills 7mm in the heaviest/most aggressive pills that will spin. Given equal sd's and equal launch speeds 30 cal will out pound a 7mm every day (given similar bullet profiles) and twice on Sunday. Playing games with cartridges and barrels to favor one is just that-- playing games. I really don't care which is better to be honest as I shoot both and kill well with both; end of story in my book.
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  #39  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:16 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Flat Rock, Michigan, USA
Posts: 121
Re: 264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

Back before Brian Litz was making the heavy 30s, he was expounding the virtues of the 7, saying the 30 could never match the uniqueness of the 7. I said make heavy 30 bullets similar to the 7s, and they would surpass the 7s in ability. He did, and they did.

So, people in love with the 7, push the 7s, for no rhyme nor reason. They even go so far as to say; "If you can't get what you want with the 7, the 338 is the next step". What a bunch of rubbish.
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  #40  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:24 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 5,954
Re: 264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty7mmstw View Post
As to Lazz., he's a blowhard and has probably lost more business with his antics than he'll gain here by being a sponsor. As to Brain Litz- I really don't care why he blows sunshine up one and not the other; I suspect he likes tighter twist (with standard rates) calibers because he can get a more aggressive profile on the longer bullets and they'll still spin well.
Brian Litz' article often gets cited in the 7 vs 30 debate and it is never cited in context. First, he was writing to a BR audience and not a long range hunting audience. One factor he mentioned was recoil and again to a BR audience shooting numerous strings, not to long range hunters with braked rifles. Also, at the time of the article there was less selection of heavier high BC bullets like the hybrids in 30 cal.

I can pretty much guarantee that if Brian entered in this he would completely refute the idea that a " 7RM can out pound an 300 WM" in the long range hunting context.

Quote:
It's really a no- brainer to anyone who doesn't have a cranial-rectal inversion that both 30cal and 7mm can be made to perform well, with the edge going to 30 cal because of weight carrying capabilities; though the average 7mm twist is a bit faster allowing for slightly higher sd bullets to be used- give them both either 9 or 10" twist to be fair and 30 kills 7mm in the heaviest/most aggressive pills that will spin. Given equal sd's and equal launch speeds 30 cal will out pound a 7mm every day (given similar bullet profiles) and twice on Sunday. Playing games with cartridges and barrels to favor one is just that-- playing games. I really don't care which is better to be honest as I shoot both and kill well with both; end of story in my book.
This is correct. Traditionally the 7 rifles have been made in faster twists which facilitated the development of longer high BC bullet and in years past the 7 generally had a much better selection of high BC bullets but the cal itself has no ballistic advantage over the 30 cal, and in fact a 215 hybrid requiring a 10 twist fired from a 300 WM will ballisitically beat a 180 hybrid requiring a 9 twist fired from a 7 RM using the same length barrels.

Idaho elk hunter is well known for his unsubstantiated rants with no data to back it up. And when asked for data he rants and babbles more but never provides data to back up his ridiculous claims.
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  #41  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:36 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 5,954
Re: 264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

BTW, I just cast my vote in this poll for the 7 RM for the exact same reason I would cast my vote for the 300 WM if the poll was between it and the 7.

The OP did not clarify the comparison so I made my vote based on the fact that this is a long range hunting forum and so voted for the 7 RM

there is no question that the 7 RM can out pound the 264 WM at long range hunting just like there is no question that the 300 WM can out pound the 7 RM.
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You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you make good use of it.
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  #42  
Old 10-26-2013, 11:56 AM
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Elkhorn Idaho
Posts: 329
Re: 264 win mag vs. 7mm rem mag

Just finished a custom build for a customer this morning. I built it on a Remington Long action. I rarely use Remington's and have been known to actually refuse to use these actions. But the customer insisted and paid extra. I went out and shot the full load developments this morning and this is what I came up with. Long Remington action ( original a 8mm Rem) Custom Wyatt extended box mag. Bartlien 28 in Barrel progressive twist or t style rifling. Final twist rate 1 in 8.65. Left hand twist. 5R RIFLING. 175gr LR Accubond. 180 Berger would also work. Win Mag primer. Bullet seated way out! I am not going to give all info, this is what I get paid for. I use Retumbo exclusively for the heavy 7mm bullets. Lets say somewhat over 76 gr of powder. Bullet moly coated. Brake is of my own manufacture. etc. 3275 fps! This OUT POUNDS all 300 win mags that you or Broz claim to do. The form factor on the 7mm just out does the 30 cal. But I don't expect you to understand form factor. Some just argue. I like all calibers. but at the end of the day the 7mm and the 338 are superior calibers for North American game when it comes to long range. Go crawl in you cave and know that the real people that are not internet warriors are laughing at you. ( Brian Litz, John Lazzeroni, Myself and the rest of the educated world)
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