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Work hardened brass and POI...

 
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  #1  
Old 10-09-2007, 02:59 PM
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Work hardened brass and POI...

Hi all,

What happens to POI, general ballistic consistency and effects to the case (if anything) with brass that has been work hardened and won't shoulder bump as it should such that there's a little extra pressure necessary to lower the bolt.

Just curious what others may have experienced in this situation.

Jon
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Last edited by jmden; 10-09-2007 at 03:01 PM. Reason: typo
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:25 PM
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Generally, your teck tension will vary greatly. Your groups will open up big time.

Anneal it or throw it away. Only two choices.

If you were using inline dies to seat with a KM press with dial indicator, you could measure the difference in seating force.

BH
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
Generally, your teck tension will vary greatly. Your groups will open up big time.

Anneal it or throw it away. Only two choices.
---- +1
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:03 AM
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Thanks guys. I should've chambered a few sized cases to see if they chambered OK before I got ready for an all day long range session as I ended up with probably over 50% of my cases obviously workhardened and at 880 and 1018 yds, my groups were not what I had expected--a little tricky cross canyon winds that I was having trouble accounting for as well. Needless to say, the cases were annealed when I got home that night and a headspace gage showed great consistency with a .002 shoulder bump and averaging .001 concentricity after sizing, trimming and turning off the high spots again due to the trimming. Hopefully, I'll see better results next time out!

Another question. I seem to recall some debate about this sometime ago. I know Lapua cases come annealed--it's quite obvious, but what about other manufacturers? It they do, it's not nearly as obvious and I'm starting to think that for general consistency, I should probably anneal brand new brass. Any thoughts there?

Thanks for the input.
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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
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  #5  
Old 10-11-2007, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
Generally, your teck tension will vary greatly. Your groups will open up big time.

Anneal it or throw it away. Only two choices.

If you were using inline dies to seat with a KM press with dial indicator, you could measure the difference in seating force.

BH
Not true... you have been given information by someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.

Ol' BH likes to give opinions about things he knows nothing about.

I hope you didn't throw away your cases.

First, ALL case makers anneal the shoulders, or they wouldn't be able to form the cases.

Lapua (and the military) does not polish the cases after annealing, our domestic makers (and most foreign makers) do.

Shoulders do not work harden (since they do not do any work ;) )... and the amount of bumping the shoulder does or does NOT do...
... has nothing to do with neck hardness, or annealing. They are two totally unrelated issues.

The only time you can work harden shoulders is when you are forming wildcats and moving shoulders back with form dies, and even then, "hardening" is rare.

The reason that your cases don't "seem" to bump, is because chambers and dies have an allowable tolerance - it's the ol' +/- 0.00xx thing.

In your case, you have a chamber that is on the short side of the allowable tolerance, and a bump die that is on the long side. So the die is not capable of bringing the case down that last few thou that you need.

There is probably just a few thou difference... and a few strokes of the press can make them fit ("multi-bumps").

If you cannot get the cases to fit, the die maker will adjust the die for free.

As too annealing - there is no reason to throw out brass even if the shoulder is hard - it anneals just fine - all brass is annealed at the shoulder to start with.

And lastly... ballistically, brass that fits the chamber tightly is more ballistically uniform, than brass that is loose in the chamber.

None of it has anything to do with necks or neck hardness, or annealing necks.

.
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Last edited by CatShooter; 10-11-2007 at 08:49 AM.
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2007, 09:15 PM
dwm dwm is offline
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Are there shell holders that come in varying thickness that can solve the shoulders don't bump/die too long issue?

(I just sand the top of my shell holder a bit with the sand paper on a very flat surface and that is usually enough to get the small bump I am looking for ...)
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:55 PM
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Catshooter, Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what to make of the situation, though, as after I annealed, the +.010 Redding Comp shellholder put 'em right where they should be when it or the +.008 wouldn't before. Didn't try 'multi-bumps'. I'll have to tuck that one away for later. ?? What do you think?
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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
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