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Wildcats and the Kahn at 1 mile plus....

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Old 03-09-2005, 08:29 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,807
Re: Wildcats and the Kahn at 1 mile plus....


Thanks for the ideas, they seem logical to me. Where I shoot the winds come up a sharp face of the rims where the shooting platform is and at the target, the winds are grenerally stronger in a down draft direction.

Finding a 1 mile range over flat land is often tricky but I will look.

Have you played much with truing up the nose lengths on your bullets for added consistancy at long range?

I have read of others doing this and it makes sense to me since every HP bullet I have ever shot had some degree of variation in nose length. Some severe.

Would be interested in your thoughts on this as well as all the others doing this same shooting. How do the nose uniformers work for you, are they worth the time and slight lose in B.C.??

Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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Old 03-09-2005, 10:05 AM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,822
Re: Wildcats and the Kahn at 1 mile plus....


I prepped the nose with a tool I made and it dropped an additional 11 inches at 1140 yards, but it cut the vertical size of my group almost in half. Looking at the wildcat bullets I don't think it will be the issue it is with the SMK. The biggest difference I have noticed with the SMK is using ones with the same ogive to base length reduced the extreme velocity spread quite a bit for me. It is tough for me to find over 400-500 yards of flat ground to test on around here. I have been fighting vertical wind / thermal / shear issues for ever. Hey I have an idea, lets build a warehouse 30' wide, 200 feet tall and 6000 feet long for a test lab. People that say you couldn't spend a 100 million lottery without giving some away never met long range shooters. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
Shawn Carlock

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Old 03-09-2005, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: GF Montana
Posts: 467
Re: Wildcats and the Kahn at 1 mile plus....

This mile+ shooting is <font color="red [b">SO COOL[/b] ] </font> maybe it deserves it's own forum.

control barrel whip

[/ QUOTE ] In Lilja's excellent article Barrel Lengths and Velocities in the 338/378 Weatherby Magnum he writes [ QUOTE ]
At the beginning I mentioned that the barrel was whippy at the longer lengths. The photograph accompanying this article shows the Geske actioned rifle with the barrel at its full 46" length. When I shot it at this length, for a moment I could actually <font color="red"> see the barrel whip like a fly rod </font> during recoil.

[/ QUOTE ]
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Old 03-09-2005, 12:24 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: on the rifle range in Utah
Posts: 2,723
Re: Wildcats and the Kahn at 1 mile plus....

Love the story! Congrats on the group. I would love to make a roadie to Big sky country to shoot with you. There are some sweet chuck spots in Montana I've been told. We don't need lots of chucks, just one that's really FAR off!

I agree with Shawn on several of his comments. We shoot at 1500 yard chucks in one place in Idaho over a huge canyon and it always is funny to watch the thermals come up out of the canyon and toss your bullet 5 feet higher from shot to shot!

I also agree with Shawn on the ogive length and meplat uniformity. On our range the other day, the ogive length was causing the bullets to change velocity about 50 fps because of the longer bearing surface on some. We were sitting there on the bench and watching the chronograph as we shot at 2000 yards. Every shot that was 25 feet faster would land about a minute and a half higher! We also noticed some that dropped way down below the gong but remained the same velocity! There was no down drafts that we could tell, so it must have been the bad meplats on the MKs. Read this: www.davidtubb.com/tcom_images/reloading/bmu_one.html

I ordered a BMU from Kevin Cram yesterday and I will let you know how it affects 2000 yard shooting on or about the 20th of March.

There is one other thing that you might be interested in. After reviewing the tape of our shoot, I began to notice that the bullets that landed right usually also landed low, and the bullets that went left usually always landed high. Then it dawned on me that I had read about this before and had just forgot about it in the excitement of the day. It is called the Magnus effect. You may already know this, but I will explain it for others who don't. This phenomenon is not gyroscopic drift which is a more common term. Magnus has to do with the rotation of the bullet in relation to the winds current direction. It is explained wonderfully in the book, "precision shooting at 1000 yards" on page 116-117.
Here is the scenario:
No wind. You hold center bull, and you hit dead center. Now there is a wind from the right to left. You know that if you hold dead center again, the bullet will impact slightly to the left. So you hold (or click) into the wind the correct amount and fire. The bullet hits center but <font color="red">high! </font> You are shocked, but think it was just a fluke and shoot again. But now, the wind is coming from left to right. So you outsmart the wind and hold (or click) left into the wind the correct amount and fire. You hit dead center, but it hits <font color="blue">low!</font> Ok, what happened. It is Magnus! It is simply a phenomenon that takes place because a right-to-left wind pushes a right-handed twisted bullet left and high, and a left-to-right wind pushes the same bullet right and low! And the farther out you shoot, the worse this thing gets. At 100 yards, it is about half a bullet diameter in certain conditions. At 2 grand, it could be 20 inches! Man this is technical, but it sure is fun!
Later, -goodgrouper
Find it
Range it
Click it
Pull it
Dump it

If it's not far, it's boring.
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Old 03-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Posts: n/a
Re: Wildcats and the Kahn at 1 mile plus....

Excellent post, and outstanding performance! Ya did good Bro! Thanks for sharing....
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:15 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,515
Re: Wildcats and the Kahn at 1 mile plus....

Ya know Shawn, I'm from up there in Hayden and in 1984 to 1992 we used to shoot out on the farmers fields north of hayden road and east of hwy 41. I wasn't even really aware of long range hunting then but I would have been able to shoot a mile and never leave the same owners property. Too bad that is all getting developed.

I cant for the life of me think of any place to even reccomend that even comes close to a mile of flat(ish) land to shoot on that dosen't have houses on it now. Give me some time to look at my topographic maps and maybe I can find something near by.

I just took a look and I'll tell ya, you are in the middle of a very large drainage basin that runs from sandpoint to spokane and beyond. If you can't find any unpopulated flat stuff there I don't know where you would go. You would be even harder pressed to find anything long distance up in the mountains. You might be able to find an old clear cut mountain side that is a mile away but you would never see the impact.

GRAVITY. It's not just a good idea. It's the LAW!
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:17 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,515
Re: Wildcats and the Kahn at 1 mile plus....

This mile+ shooting is SO COOL ] maybe it deserves it's own forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

We had it. We don't have it now.

Don't ask. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
GRAVITY. It's not just a good idea. It's the LAW!
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