Originally Posted by Buffalobob
Type all you want but I got you.
That is the thing about people like me, we don't forget. So you just keep typing and I will just keep reminding you that you advocated cheating Kirby.
Hey dude, I never advocated cheating Kirby. You can call any reamer manufacturer and tell him the specs you desire and he will make it unless it is a proprietory or a patented drawing and at the time of this discussion, they were not. You can get the specs from either a fired casing or a pencil and paper. If you do your homework, you will find that there are a lot of gunsmiths/wildcatters out there that have designed similar chamberings and they are not cheating Kirby. If you really dig deep, there are folks that proclaim that they were the first to do a certain modification on a mass produced case. Other folks follow them and then improve on the design or rename it (as long as it is not proprietory). It would be very hard to claim a first if someone did not get access to the cases for modification until they come out of the factory for retail sale. By that time, it has been tweeked a lot.
However, if you had a reamer made up and called it the "allen magnum" and did not get permission from Kirby, then you would have cheated him. If you get a boo-boo or a yogi made up and did not get permission from David Tooley, then you would have cheated him. If you duplicate and edge and call it an edge you will have cheated Shawn. If you build a thunder equivalent and call it a thunder, then you would have cheated GoodGrouper. But if you name it BuffaloBob's _______ desire, then you should be safe.
The guys who run the reamer shops are very good at what they do. I would expect that you could call them and within say 30 minutes you would have a drawing of your desire on the fax machine to proof and sign prior to placing the order.
For instance, there are folks on this website that were making 338/300 RUM rifles prior to Remington even selling a 300 RUM rifle. They got the specs and had a reamer manufactured. Now, no one is going to accuse Shawn Carlock of cheating anyone by using their idea and rightly so.......... He just designed his own verision and named it the Edge. I had 338 Lapua style custom made brass made without headstamp in 1994 from the source of the special ops project prior to Lapua even making the brass. The special ops project got cancelled due to the barrels for the project not meeting the design specifications of the contract. I designed and was shooting my own wildcats based on it and I am fairly sure this was before most gunsmiths even had their reamers produced. I do not advocate that I got cheated. I even sold some to the US State Department for their sniper interdiction teams to test and then to the Air Force Special Ops command as well. After we all tested it and liked it, then Lapua mass produced it. Maybe one of those guys sold the idea to Lapua.... Who knows or who cares as it is merely a modified 416 Rigby case that has been tweeked for years...... But the cases say 416 Rigby and mine are blank to prevent from leaving a footprint in the battle field. Send me a pre paid postage envelope or shipping box and I will send you a sample.
Even if a gunsmith such as Kirby mass produces rifles based on a case design that I was the first to modify, I don't care and if I did, it would be patented. But, I do not accuse Kirby of cheating me. David Tooley and Ken Rhyne got some of this brass as well and I know they had it modified and were shooting it at 1K prior to the reamer shops having standard drawings of the case to use to take measurements for reamer manufacture. FWIW, when we had our reamers manufactured, we had to send some new brass to Dave Manson for him to use to take measurements since he had never heard of it..... I do not hold ill will toward anyone who wants to have a chambering similar or exactly the same as mine. If I cared about it, then I would patent it or list it as a proprietory drawing with the reamer company.
If someone really wants to, he can patent his design and then no one would be able to use it unless they got permission. I chose not to, but you already knew/know that. As far as I know, Kirby has not patented his and I am sure you now that as well.
So about this subject, it would be hard to as you say "cheat" Kirby.
Have a good day.