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Wildcat Bullets?

 
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2004, 03:22 PM
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Re: Wildcat Bullets?

Lynn,

I have to respectfully disagree with your comments on the Wildcat bullets. Let me explain my reasoning.

1) the Meplat is to large for the caliber for good BC numbers.

While the Meplat does in fact have something to do with B.C. it is one of the lesser important parts of the bullet to produce high B.C.s.

Have you tested the 300 gr Wildcat ULD against the 300 gr Seirra to see how they compare in bullet drop, I mean actual bullet drop over actual ranges?

I loaded both the 300 gr Sierra and Wildcat ULD bullets up in my 338 Kahn and tested them both.

I will also admit that I have yet to only test the Kahn out to 500 yards as I am waiting for a shipment of specially sized 338 bullets from Wildcat Bullets. The Sierra and regular Wildcat 338 ULD bullets are running in the .3385" to .3386" range which it to large in diameter for my throat which is cut to .3382".

Both bullets shoot very well but pressures rise prematurely due to the fat bullets. I will be getting some properly sized .3380" bullets from Wildcat Bullets here in the next month or so.

Anyway, I have tested these two bullets side by side at 100 and 500 yards.

I loaded both to an average velocity of 3080 fps which is pretty near top with the fat bullets.

I sighted the 338 Kahn in at +5" at 100 yards and shot test groups with both bullets to get an average impact measurement for both bullets.

I then moved back to 500 yards and fired three, 3 shot groups with each bullet and measured the drop in comparision to the 100 yard impact.

Wildcat bullets does not provide the B.C. for each bullet as this numebr is a condition of to many vaiables to stick it with one value. They simply expect you to figure it out for yourself at the velocity, altitude and elevation you are at. This is the only accurate way to figure B.C. anyway.

The Wildcat Bullets 300 gr ULD had 1.433" less drop for the three, three shot groups then the 300 gr Sierra did.

Like I said, this is only a 500 yard test and much more testing will be done soon on these bullets but it is obvious that the 300 gr Wildcat has a higher B.C. then the 300 gr Sierra MK. It certainly is not less then the Sierra.

1 1/2" less drop may not seem like much but at extreme range this will be dramatic, not only in drop but more importantly in wind drift which is the real killer in extreme range consistancy.

Please also keep in mind that the bullets I tested were the "Hunting" version of the 300 gr ULD.

This bullet has a much larger meplat then the match as well as the front portion of the bullet nose is slightly set back to form an expansion aiding feature on the bullet nose.

Even with this the B.C. is slightly higher then the Sierra MK. Were you testing the "match" or "hunting" ULD? Yes there are two different bullets.

2) My understanding of the Rebated boat tail resign is to combine all the best features of the flat base(accuracy, consistancy, ease of making) with the best features of the boattail(extreme range stability, lower velocity drop, higher retained energy, less wind drift).

That said and understand that is just my understanding of the design goals, the Wildcat bullets perform very well.

In the same test mentioned above, the 300 gr Sierra averaged .496" ctc for three, three shot groups at 100 yards and at 500 yards averaged 1.639" ctc for another three, 3 shot groups.

The 300 gr Wildcat ULD averaged .413" ctc for three, 3 shot groups at 100 yards and an impressive 1.095" ctc averge at 500 yards for three, 3 shot groups. It should be also noted that two of the three groups were under 1" at .891" and .984" ctc.

The third group had two shots under 1/2" but the third got away from me and opened the group up to 1.409" ctc.

No group shot with the 300 gr Sierra has ever broken the 1" barrier at 500 yards out of my 338 Kahn. They shoot very well and are very consistant but the Wildcats, at least the ones I tested out shot the 300 gr Sierra bullets by a fair margin.

Is this enough to make a difference, to me I want the most accurate bullet I can find and so far the Wildcat Bullets are those bullets.

Also, the fact that Richard Graves was willing to order a special reducing die to make true .3380" diameter bullets tells me he is serious about doing whatever he can to support his customer base.

This attitude is worth its weight in gold in my mind, think Sierra would make a special run of true .338" bullets for me?

No they would say recut your throat to fit "OUR" bullets. If Wildcats bullets was not around that is what I would have to do, fortunately, there are those willing to do true "custom" work like Richard.

I have also tested the Wildcat Match ULD bullets in the 6.5mm with the 142 gr ULD and it has also proven to have a higher B.C. then the Sierra 142gr Mk and also held tighter groups.

3) I am not 100% sure but I am very confident that the jackets used in the Wildcat 338 ULDs are not J-$ jackets. In fact I am not even aware that a 338 J-4 jacket is even made.

The big 338 VLD and ULD bullets need relatively heavy jackets to survive the launch of these big rounds. The J-4 jacket would be far to thin for these heavy bullets.

I believe the jackets used on the bullets I tested were Harfield jackets and I believe that all Wildcat Bullets in 338 are built with jackets of 0.040" thickness to properly handle all the special concerns with a bullet this heavy and long driven to high velocities.

This is also why they perform so well on big game.

You have a right to your opinion but I hope your basing your opinion on hard facts and not simply your opinion.

I will not say that every 338 will shoot better with the Wildcat Bullets then with the Sierra MKs. Hell the Sierra is even cheaper to buy. But from the results I have personally fired on target, the Sierra 300 gr Mk has been dropped and the Wildcat Bullets will be the only bullets I will shoot out of my 338 Kahn for exteme range shooting.

For this type of shooting, saving a few pennies on each bullet is simply a compromise in performance.

Please explain to me your comment about the 300 gr Sierra producing less recoil? That interests me, please explain your theory and logic behind that commment?

As a custom rifle builder, I will not endorse anything until it is proven up to the standards I hold for my rifles. I have tested the Wildcat Bullets in many different calibers and I have always been very happy with the results.

FOr my AM rounds, Wildcat Bullets are the only bullets I will endorse for these extreme performance magnums in .257", 6.5mm and .277".

I have used his bullets on game and have been extremely impressed with their accuracy, consistancy and on game performance.

I felt more then confident this year taking a neck shot on the largest whitetail buck I have harvested to date at nearly 300 yards with his 130 gr Bonded Core FBHP in .257". This bullet prints in the .3's at 100 yards out of the 257 STW rifles I have built and averges right at 1 1/4" for three shot groups at 500 yards. This is out of #6 contour, 30" Lilja barrels driven to 3500 fps.

Again actual range and field testing.

I have had some rifles and handguns that preferred other brands of bullets but those have been very few and far between. On average, the Wildcat Bullets will deliever on true match grade accuracy as well as on game performance in the hunting bullet lines.

Please tell us the results of your range testing with the 300 gr Sierra and Wildcat bullets, all the actual range testing information we can get is invaluable.

Good Shooting!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

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Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

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  #16  
Old 11-08-2004, 08:17 PM
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Re: Wildcat Bullets?

Fifty,
I have sent a few emails back and forth to Richard about .277 bullets. Have you had a chance to try any of these out yet? I know he's suppost to come out with a few different weights / styles. I was going to test out some of his 168 grainers, but I'm not sure if my twist (1-10)in my 270WSM will stabalize them. Probly be close. Thinking about using some RL19 and could possibly get ~2900. What do you think?

Owe yeah, Richard is a top notch guy. Returns emails fast, and seems like he'll be great to work with.
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2004, 10:43 PM
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Re: Wildcat Bullets?

Cobber,

I have a shipment of those 168's on the way as we speak.

I would also say you will be alright with your 1-10 twist in the 270 WSM. It may be close but I would think you will be alright with top loads.

If you find that you are not getting tight groups with starting loads, be sure to test the bullets up through the entire pressure range. Sometimes a bullet that is on the edge of stablility will not shoot real well at lower velocity but tightens up very good at top speeds.

The 257 STWs are a prime example of this with Richards big 130 gr BCFBHP. When loaded in the 3000 to 3250 fps range they are not all that impressive. In fact I was about to give up on them and go with the 120 gr Partition but wanted to see just how fast the STW would drive these very large 25 cal bullets.

At a tick over 3300 fps the groups went from 1 moa to 1/2 moa. At the top velocity capacble with the STW at around 3480 fps, these bullets cut groups in the .3's.

If I remember correctly, Richard was telling me about a Bonded Core 130 gr FBHP that he had designed for a friends 270 WSM. Apparently this bullet was shooting scary small groups.

I have found his BC flat base bullets to offer B.C. values much higher then one would expect.

I have done extensive testing with his 100 and 130 gr FBHP's in the 257 STW. The 100 gr version has a B.C. of .480 which is substantially higher then a 100 gr Ballistic Tip. The 130 gr version is in teh .560 rangewhich is vastly more then any commercial 25 bullet on the market.

You may want to give those 130 gr .277" bullets a test, Richard sounded very impressed with that bullet in the WSM. When a bullet smith gets excited about a certain bullet, you can bet the thing shoots!!!

Kind of like when a rifle get a gunsmith excited!!

Anyway, I have not tested that 168 gr at all yet but I would think the B.C. would be in the low to mid .6 range and you should be able to get 2900 fps depending on your barrel length.

This would make a hell of a long range set up. The nice thing about Richard is that he will ship you a box of 50 so you can test the rounds without ordering a full box of 100 bullets.

This allows plenty of testing and if the bullets do nto work out, you are not stuck with most of a box of 100 bullets sitting on the bench.

He will work with you and could also probably offer some good load data as he was involved in developing those 270 WSM loads with his friend I believe.

THis bullet in my 270 AM will be extremely impressive. Will take the 270 rounds to a new performance level for sure.

Let me know how they perform for you in your 1-10. That information will be very valuable to me in the development of my 270 AM rifles.

Good Shooting!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2004, 05:45 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Randolph
Posts: 57
Re: Wildcat Bullets?

Thanks for the insite Fifty;
I won't have a chance to play with them for quite a while (whitetail season starting, then skiing and snowmobiling), but I will get to them eventually and keep you posted. As for the 130 grainers, I may give them a shot at some point. Its hard for me to move away from the 140 grain Accubonds right now. I've developed a mild load that shoots really well (largest 3 shot group is .480" smallest is .280") with Magpro going 3050. I'm very impressed for a Mod 70 Featherweight thats only been bedded and had the trigger adjusted. I'm hoping to get that kind of accuracy with about 200 more fps. We'll see after hunting season.
I'll keep ya posted.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2004, 08:08 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Wildcat Bullets?

Cobber,

Sounds like a real shooter. Out of a factory rifle its hard to want more then your getting but from what Richard was reporting the 130's were extremely accurate.

Still if it ain't broke....

Good luck this season.

Kirby Allen(50)
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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