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What's more important, ES or Group Size??

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  #8  
Unread 05-03-2011, 07:16 AM
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Re: What's more important, ES or Group Size??

Go to your hunting property where you can shoot 800 yards and find the load that gives the best group. It probably has the best ES too, but at your max range the group will tell the story.

edge.
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  •   #9  
    Unread 05-03-2011, 07:27 AM
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    Re: What's more important, ES or Group Size??

    Well said, I wasn't saying that group size doesn't matter but giving up a little in group size is better than having a ES that's way to high. I think you should try a new load combo and try to get your ES under 10 if you want to do your best at 800 yards. Even if it doesn't shoot but 1.25moa at 200 that will keep you in or very close to a 6" group at 800.
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      #10  
    Unread 05-03-2011, 08:30 AM
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    Re: What's more important, ES or Group Size??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jumpalot View Post
    So how can I shrink group size of the load that has a good ES? It will print two shots together (within 1/2") and throw the third out an inch. It will consistently put the first two shots right next to each other and then throw the 3rd low and left. Is this something that can be fixed with seating depth? What about a different primer?
    It sounds like you may have a bedding problem or the barrel is heating up.

    What you have is a good hunting rifle but not a match rifle (One or two shots are all
    you need) .

    Check the ES on the first two and if they are way apart it is still a load problem , but
    may also be bedding and or heat.

    You can verify this also by shooting one shot and waiting 10 to 15 minutes before the next
    shot is fired.

    If conditions (Wind,Temp ETC) have not changed the groups should improve if its the bedding.

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      #11  
    Unread 05-03-2011, 08:39 AM
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    Re: What's more important, ES or Group Size??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jumpalot View Post
    So how can I shrink group size of the load that has a good ES? It will print two shots together (within 1/2") and throw the third out an inch. It will consistently put the first two shots right next to each other and then throw the 3rd low and left. Is this something that can be fixed with seating depth? What about a different primer?
    Two next to each other and throws the third out of the group...bet you're shooting VLDs.

    Adjust only one thing at a time, your two options are tune seating depth (would be my first option), then maybe tweak the powder charge up/down .2 or .3 grains
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      #12  
    Unread 05-03-2011, 01:47 PM
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    Re: What's more important, ES or Group Size??

    Shooting 168 Bergers, Norma Brass, CCI 250 Primers and H4831 powder. Had no luck with the 180 Bergers. The H1000 and Retumbo are producing a lot of smoke and carbon fouling.
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      #13  
    Unread 05-03-2011, 02:00 PM
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    Re: What's more important, ES or Group Size??

    I'll probably get bashed for this but oh well. I do not know what your seating depth is but if I were you just for s#@ts and grins I'd jam them .005-.010" in the lands and find a good charge of IMR4350 (probably in the 60-64grn area or more with Norma brass), and set that off with a CCI BR2 or Fed210M, just because that's a good paper punching 1k load doesn't mean it won't roll a whitetail at 800 yards!
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      #14  
    Unread 05-03-2011, 02:30 PM
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    Re: What's more important, ES or Group Size??

    It seems common for the VLDs to throw one round out of the group. I have not yet discovered the voodoo that corrects the issue. I have been able to reduce the problem with seating depth tweaks though.
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