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Whats the best rifle for building a 338LM on?

 
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  #15  
Old 02-20-2004, 07:30 PM
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Re: Whats the best rifle for building a 338LM on?

Brent: I'm interested in hearing more about your 30/338 Lap as I am getting ready to build one on a 700 action. My 7/338 Lap is rock solid and I LOVE it. I must object to the comment above about the 700 not being "able to compete in the modern accuracy environment" though. This is a total fallacy and is proved inaccurate every day. The 700 is one of the most accurate and reliable actions on the market as it has been for many years. Unfortunately, there are quite a few people out there who own Sako's and think that you can get no better. All I can say is that if my tactical rifle in the Marine Corps is based on a 700 action and the Sako is better, why has the US govt not started using Sako instead of Rem actions? Now, for the novice, a Sako or a Weatherby (Weatherby being the superior of the two) action would be ideal for someone with little experience in wildcatting, but if you're after the the action with the most after-market parts and info available, then you'll choose the Remington. For the easy way out, the Sako would be fine as there is less work to be done, but, if you want a rifle that you can always rely on, then the Remington is the way to go. I put my life in the hands of Remington on more than one occasion (and have owned and shot them for 25 years now) and it never let me down so if it was me building the rifle, I would choose nothing but the M700. I have had 11 Sako rifles and, whereas they have been good rifles, I feel that they try a little too hard to make a rifle that "looks pretty" rather than one that can go to hell and back without incident. I'm not in any way trashing Sako because they ARE good rifles, i'm just saying that they are a little overpriced for what you get. The only thing bad I can ever say about the 700 is that when they went to that new "J-Lock" system, it removed the ability to install a speed lock firing pin (which I have grown very fond of). Anyhow, everybody above makes some good points, but, I personally would go with a 700. There IS quite a bit of work to be done, but, in the end, it's WELL worth every bit of it. Just my .02!

TH
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  #16  
Old 02-21-2004, 03:28 AM
 
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Re: Whats the best rifle for building a 338LM on?

Lots of 700's have been converted, but the Sako has a much bigger lug bearing surface and bolt diameter.
This is a good thing when dealing with such a big case.
Yes, the operating pressures are the same, but the RUM case only puts out about 10,340 ft lb of back thrust at 65k, and the Lapua will do more like 12,760.
Maybe fine, but if you're staring from scratch, I think I'd go with the TRG.
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  #17  
Old 02-21-2004, 10:02 AM
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Re: Whats the best rifle for building a 338LM on?

Bump to YoungGun. This area is where the Sako outshines the 700. However, the 700 is still a fine action to use for a .338 Lap. Being a Remington fan though, I personally would go with the 700. There are a lot of knowledgeable guys who know what they're talking about on this board so I am sure that you will find out what you need to know. All I can say is take your time and decide what works best for YOU. Best of luck to ya bro and let us all know what you decide on and how the project goes.

TH

[ 02-21-2004: Message edited by: Austin ]
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2004, 06:43 PM
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Re: Whats the best rifle for building a 338LM on?

Youngun in right the Lapua would have a little more bolt thrust. However it does not have more recoil surface as evidenced by everybody putting a Badger, Tubb or Holland style lug on there Sako's. Do the same with a Remmy. Bolt diameter has little to do with anything.
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  #19  
Old 02-21-2004, 07:23 PM
dwm dwm is offline
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Re: Whats the best rifle for building a 338LM on?

You could always just buy an AR-30 ...

They come in 338 Lapua ...

[ 02-21-2004: Message edited by: dwm ]
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2004, 04:22 AM
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Re: Whats the best rifle for building a 338LM on?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Lots of 700's have been converted, but the Sako has a much bigger lug bearing surface and bolt diameter.
This is a good thing when dealing with such a big case.
Yes, the operating pressures are the same, but the RUM case only puts out about 10,340 ft lb of back thrust at 65k, and the Lapua will do more like 12,760.
Maybe fine, but if you're staring from scratch, I think I'd go with the TRG.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Remington is rated at over twice that bolt thrust load, so, what's the point if they both will handle the load with a huge margin for safety?

I'd build it on the 700, and never look back either.

I've got a 721 action that I'll reserve for some destructive testing using the 30/338 Lapua Imp hooked to the two pressure testing systems I use. I'd like to hear all of your opinions on what's going to blow first, and at what pressure.

I'm going to tell you, the case is. I could use 338 caliber bullets and see how the receiver ring or barrel threads hold up, but that bolt isn't going anywhere.

As soon as I get the lathe and mill set up at the shop we'll get this done and have something REAL to talk about concerning this 700 in 338 Lapua safety non-sense. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Anyone want to donate their beloved Sako to compare!
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  #21  
Old 02-22-2004, 09:30 AM
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Re: Whats the best rifle for building a 338LM on?

A similar extreme pressure test was done 20 or 25 years ago but, Bill Miller didn't have the new Sako 3 lug action to try out. Bill was the Vice president of the Williamsport 1000 yard club and a longrange hunter and competitive shooter.

A Mauser 98, a Winchester md 70, a Remington 700 and an Enfield P=17 made by Winchester was used for the test.

All rifles were fitted with used barrels and each chambered for the 30/378 Weatherby. 250 By 30 cal MK bullets (available at the time) were used for the test along with H-4831 powder. The powder charges were worked up a few grains at a time till an action blew or locked up and then continued with more powder in the remaining actions till all of them failed.

The barreled actions were placed in a large earth mover tire (one at a time) and a "long" string was attached to each trigger. This test was done at Bill Millers machine shop in Watsontown, PA.

Here are the results of that testing as reported by Bill at the time. Several of the members of the 1000 yard club were on hand for the testing.

The first to go was the Mauser 98 and it was blown to pieces and the bolt was not in what was left of the action. Both lugs were sheared off. It was not a real heavy charge either as I remember.

Next was the Md 70 which had the front of the action blown away all the way around. The bolt was still in what was left of the action with a large amount of set back and one lug partially sheared away. Part of the bolt head was also gone.

Next came the Remington which had one side of the front of receiver blown out (in pieces) and the bolt locked up and also set back. Both lugs were grooved badly and one lug was half gone.

The last action to fail under "extreme" pressure was the P-17 Enfield by Winchester.
Nothing was blown away on the action but the bolt locked up with 112 grs or 117 grs (not sure right now which) of 4831 which was quite a bit more then what the Remington and other actions failed at. If I remember correctly, the Remington went with 102 grs.

The barrel on the Enfield had to be cut back and away at the threaded area to relieve the tension but, when this was done, the bolt still functioned in the rails. No lug grooves or chips to bolt face were detected.

All the rest of the actions were destroyed from this testing and not usable again. The P17 was not used either but, Bill thought it could be.

Now the only point to make here is, if you happen to screw up and put the wrong powder in when loading or forget to clean all the grease from the cases, you may have a better chance of "living" with a stronger action like the P-17 or a custom or even "possibly" the Sako 3 lug then any of the others that blew apart or locked up during these high pressure tests.
Yes, the Remington failed as all actions will eventually do, under extreme pressures.

Wish Bill would have had a 3 lug Sako to try this test on to see how it would have held up? They weren't being made then however.

This was just a test to see how the actions would hold up under "extreme" pressure and all of them have their limits and can be blown up or locked up in one way or another.

Remingtons "may" be strong enough to hold some of the larger cases like the Lapua but, with the expense of cutting the bolt face out, putting in a special Sako extractor, increasing the size of the magazine box, never overloading a tad to obtain a bit more velocity, it makes better sense to me to buy a complete Sako 995 chambered in the 338 Lapua for about $600.00.
The action is ready to go with "NO" other alterations needed as one would have to do with a Remington. If you just used the action, you probably won't have any more invested then the machine work and initial cost of a Remington action would be, and you would end up with Sako quality and 3 lug safety, if piece of mind is is an issue.
You could sell the stock and barrel and recoup some of the $600.00 spent for the complete rifle.

It just makes much more sense to me to go this route then fooling with a Remington action and all the work and expense needed to use it for larger cases. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Just another view point and I might add, I have several bench rifles made with Remington actions but, would "never" consider chambering a 30/378 or 338/378 on them the way I like to push the velocity and pressure envelope even though they may work fine for some who keep the pressures down.

To each his own.

Later
DC [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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