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What happened to the '06?

 
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  #50  
Old 05-07-2013, 08:11 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Id.
Posts: 3,356
Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbreitwieser View Post
Well, I still have a little while to decide what I want to go with, but just for ease of reloading and only for smacking steel up to 1000-1200 yds, I think I might just stick with the '06 (maybe go AI just for a little better performance??). I know its old, kind of out dated, and lacking in perfomance compared to many newer cartridges, but it should do what I want. Thanks for the lessons you got taught me, and please, continue these conversations. Im learning a lot.
Nothing wrong with a std. '06. One of the most avilable and easiest to load for ever! I would suggest this though; if you are going to bother with improving it, you are going to improve it more with the Sherman than an A.I. Don't let the detractors scare you to death with visions of the nukes I've been loading! Here is an example: Lyman #48 loading manual. 300 SAUM max load with a 180 grain (64.5 grains IMR 4831) 200 grain (62 grains IMR 4831) my case holds approx 2 grains more than the saum and has a longer throat which adds even more capacity. I was loading 64 grains of IMR 4831 with a 190; right in between these two, for 3050' with a 28" barrel. Do the math! The new Berger manual shows the 300 saum top velocity with a "24 inch" barrel at 2880'. Add 2-3 more grains of effective case capacity and 4 more inches of barrel length, and it is not difficult to believe 3050'. I'm pretty sure that both Lyman and Berger are not exceeding saami by 15-20 thousand psi! If you like wildcats, by all means build one and have some fun. If you don't want to mess with case formimg, reloading, etc., buy an '06 and have fun! Just don't let people who insist on being wiser than everyone else, (whether they are or not) discourage you. This is America, right......Rich
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  #51  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 876
Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkaholic View Post
In response to some of the doubters, I'm not doing anything here that you can't do with the short mags with a 28" barrel! My capacity is right in between the WSM and SAUM and it has a longer throat as well.It just happens to be on an '06 sized case. The new Berger manual shows the saum at very near 3000' with a 24 " barrel. My velocities are stated with a 28" barrel. I don't understand the GREAT mystery here?
The great mystery here is that you are using an OLD case design to equal the performance of NEW designs. EVERYONE knows that is just dangerous and not possible without the magic short, fat case pixie dust. When Remchester comes out with a smaller cased round, calls it a magnum, and claims it outperforms larger cased cartridges of the same caliber, no one even questions that, let alone excoriates them for being wildly unsafe and irresponsible.

But, let someone do the same thing in an older, not as cool cartridge case and they are conspiring to set off a bomb in your face. Even worse, it's being done in something not called a magnum. It sure is wonderful to know that we have such experts on this site that they can tell you how much pressure your wildcat cartridge generates without taking any measurements, or doing any testing, or bothering with even rudimentary math.

Elkaholic, your REAL problem is that you didn't name your cartridge the Sherman Magnum and pay for slick marketing to have your cartridge proclaimed the pinnacle of cartridge evolution.
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  #52  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:00 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Id.
Posts: 3,356
Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benchracer View Post
The great mystery here is that you are using an OLD case design to equal the performance of NEW designs. EVERYONE knows that is just dangerous and not possible without the magic short, fat case pixie dust. When Remchester comes out with a smaller cased round, calls it a magnum, and claims it outperforms larger cased cartridges of the same caliber, no one even questions that, let alone excoriates them for being wildly unsafe and irresponsible.

But, let someone do the same thing in an older, not as cool cartridge case and they are conspiring to set off a bomb in your face. Even worse, it's being done in something not called a magnum. It sure is wonderful to know that we have such experts on this site that they can tell you how much pressure your wildcat cartridge generates without taking any measurements, or doing any testing, or bothering with even rudimentary math.

Elkaholic, your REAL problem is that you didn't name your cartridge the Sherman Magnum and pay for slick marketing to have your cartridge proclaimed the pinnacle of cartridge evolution.
Mystery solved! I like your style!.......Rich
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  #53  
Old 05-08-2013, 01:25 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: DuCo, IN
Posts: 19
Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkaholic View Post
Nothing wrong with a std. '06. One of the most avilable and easiest to load for ever! I would suggest this though; if you are going to bother with improving it, you are going to improve it more with the Sherman than an A.I. Don't let the detractors scare you to death with visions of the nukes I've been loading! Here is an example: Lyman #48 loading manual. 300 SAUM max load with a 180 grain (64.5 grains IMR 4831) 200 grain (62 grains IMR 4831) my case holds approx 2 grains more than the saum and has a longer throat which adds even more capacity. I was loading 64 grains of IMR 4831 with a 190; right in between these two, for 3050' with a 28" barrel. Do the math! The new Berger manual shows the 300 saum top velocity with a "24 inch" barrel at 2880'. Add 2-3 more grains of effective case capacity and 4 more inches of barrel length, and it is not difficult to believe 3050'. I'm pretty sure that both Lyman and Berger are not exceeding saami by 15-20 thousand psi! If you like wildcats, by all means build one and have some fun. If you don't want to mess with case formimg, reloading, etc., buy an '06 and have fun! Just don't let people who insist on being wiser than everyone else, (whether they are or not) discourage you. This is America, right......Rich
I do like wildcats. My first ever bolt gun build (and first thing I ever reloaded) was a .358 Hoosier that I made in gunsmithing school. Took me forever to figure out how to make that brass without totally screwing it up, but it is pretty cool to have something most people dont even know exists. However, theres many .30 cal and lesser wildcats that are all so similar that it makes my head spin. I think if I just stick with the standard '06 Ill have a caliber that I wont regret, and I wont have to ponder over whether or not I picked the "right" wildcat.

Thanks!
Clint
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  #54  
Old 05-08-2013, 01:38 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 268
Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkaholic View Post
Nothing wrong with a std. '06. One of the most avilable and easiest to load for ever! I would suggest this though; if you are going to bother with improving it, you are going to improve it more with the Sherman than an A.I. Don't let the detractors scare you to death with visions of the nukes I've been loading! Here is an example: Lyman #48 loading manual. 300 SAUM max load with a 180 grain (64.5 grains IMR 4831) 200 grain (62 grains IMR 4831) my case holds approx 2 grains more than the saum and has a longer throat which adds even more capacity. I was loading 64 grains of IMR 4831 with a 190; right in between these two, for 3050' with a 28" barrel. Do the math! The new Berger manual shows the 300 saum top velocity with a "24 inch" barrel at 2880'. Add 2-3 more grains of effective case capacity and 4 more inches of barrel length, and it is not difficult to believe 3050'. I'm pretty sure that both Lyman and Berger are not exceeding saami by 15-20 thousand psi! If you like wildcats, by all means build one and have some fun. If you don't want to mess with case formimg, reloading, etc., buy an '06 and have fun! Just don't let people who insist on being wiser than everyone else, (whether they are or not) discourage you. This is America, right......Rich
You might think I am being a blowhard..I understand, but hear me out.

You are loading 190s over 64 grains of IMR-4831 for 3050fps right???
Hodgdon (pressure tested data) lists the 300RSAUM with 65.5grs of H-4831 (0.5 gr slower in a 300) for 2811fps @ 62,800psi.
Pretty much the same powder charge, but you are running 240fps faster in a case you say is larger?...How can that be?
If your case is larger than the RSAUM you would be running slower with the same powder charge right?

With the 300Winchester Hodgdon lists 72.5 grains of IMR-4831 for 2951fps at 61,200psi
That is 100fps SLOWER with 8.5 grains MORE powder in a cartridge that is under 61,200psi?
How do you explain that? Your case is bigger than the 300Winchester?

I understand that you do not believe me...no problem....So phone Hodgdon (913-362-9455) and prove me wrong!
I have seen cases over 80,000psi that showed no signs of pressure.
My buddy and his 416 Rem was a classic example....he swore up and down that my pressure sensor was trash.
Bottom line was I phoned Hodgdon then handed my buddy the phone.
A few seconds later the color faded from my buddies face?
Turns out the Hodgdon employee asked why his voice was so loud????? My buddy replied he wasn't being loud??...The Hodgdon employee said, "well you are damn well the loudest dead man I have ever heard!"
My buddy went home and fixed his load.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, just trying to save you some serious grief.
I am happy to phone them on your behalf?
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  #55  
Old 05-08-2013, 08:21 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Id.
Posts: 3,356
Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbreitwieser View Post
I do like wildcats. My first ever bolt gun build (and first thing I ever reloaded) was a .358 Hoosier that I made in gunsmithing school. Took me forever to figure out how to make that brass without totally screwing it up, but it is pretty cool to have something most people dont even know exists. However, theres many .30 cal and lesser wildcats that are all so similar that it makes my head spin. I think if I just stick with the standard '06 Ill have a caliber that I wont regret, and I wont have to ponder over whether or not I picked the "right" wildcat.

Thanks!
Clint
Good choice. Enjoy what you do!.........Rich
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  #56  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:11 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Id.
Posts: 3,356
Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-man View Post
You might think I am being a blowhard..I understand, but hear me out.

You are loading 190s over 64 grains of IMR-4831 for 3050fps right???
Hodgdon (pressure tested data) lists the 300RSAUM with 65.5grs of H-4831 (0.5 gr slower in a 300) for 2811fps @ 62,800psi.
Pretty much the same powder charge, but you are running 240fps faster in a case you say is larger?...How can that be?
If your case is larger than the RSAUM you would be running slower with the same powder charge right?

With the 300Winchester Hodgdon lists 72.5 grains of IMR-4831 for 2951fps at 61,200psi
That is 100fps SLOWER with 8.5 grains MORE powder in a cartridge that is under 61,200psi?
How do you explain that? Your case is bigger than the 300Winchester?

I understand that you do not believe me...no problem....So phone Hodgdon (913-362-9455) and prove me wrong!
I have seen cases over 80,000psi that showed no signs of pressure.
My buddy and his 416 Rem was a classic example....he swore up and down that my pressure sensor was trash.
Bottom line was I phoned Hodgdon then handed my buddy the phone.
A few seconds later the color faded from my buddies face?
Turns out the Hodgdon employee asked why his voice was so loud????? My buddy replied he wasn't being loud??...The Hodgdon employee said, "well you are damn well the loudest dead man I have ever heard!"
My buddy went home and fixed his load.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, just trying to save you some serious grief.
I am happy to phone them on your behalf?
X-man.....If you are genuinely concerned, I thank you for that! Here is what I suggest: Look up the data that I quoted from both Berger and Lyman and see if it makes sense to you. If it does, Great! If it doesn't, have your connections with Hodgdon call Berger and Lyman and straighten them out! Thanks for your input........Rich
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