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What happened to the '06?

 
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  #22  
Old 05-02-2013, 02:03 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by Daveinjax View Post
I am assuming this is for hunting so how about a smaller diameter bullet but tbe same 168gr to 180gr weight range ? Same or less recoil on your end and more energy at 1000 yards.
I think that with a 7mm SAUM compared to a .30-06, both shooting 175's at 2870 fps from 9 pound rifles, the 7mm will have more barrel time recoil impulse than the .30-06. It's the barrel time recoil (before the bullet exits the muzzle) that makes the 7mm a bit harder to shoot accurately. But its the recoil after the bullet's left that's what most folks complain about; it doesn't effect how accurate one can shoot the rifle. In this comparison, the 7mm SAUM also has more recoil after the bullet's left. But not by much.
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2013, 10:23 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

[QUOTE=Bart B;802201]German Salazar's article on the .30-06 vs .308 is a good one. But it only compares one rifle in each caliber and one shooter doing the tests.

When the .308's scores in competition trumped virtually all the .30-06 scores in the mid 1960's, its 30 to 40 percent better accuracy was attributed to one little difference that few people nowadays know about. With equal quality rifles, barrels, cases, primers, powder and bullets, the best .30-06 match rifles back then shot about 5 to 6 inches at 600 yards properly tested. The .308's shot about 3 to 4 inches at its beginning. The reason was primarily attributed to the 2.5 degree leade angle on .30-06 chambers being too steep. .308's had a 1.5 degree leade angle and bullets were less deformed as they entered the rifling. A .30-06 with a 1.5 degree leade angle shot more accurate.

At all ranges and both cartridge chambers having a 1.5 degree leade angle, the difference is small nowadays, but enough to show that .308's shoot better scores at 1000 yards than the .30-06. I think Sierra tried using the .30-06 to test their 30 caliber bullets 180 grains and lighter but it never quite equalled the accuracy the .308 produced. The track record of each at the Nationals and other NRA high power matches prove this. The .308's case is more condusive to lower muzzle velocity and pressure curve spreads; a critical element of good accuracy. Most folks won't tell the difference. Back when both rounds were legal in Palma matches in the USA, the .30-06 shot some really good scores but was never king of the mountain. One factor's the .308 moves the rifle less in barrel-time recoil than the .30-06 and that makes it easier to shoot accurately.

Afield in hunting rifles and with bullets 180 grains and lighter, it'll be hard to tell the difference. With heavier bullets, of course the larger case capacity of the '06 makes it a better choice. But few animals can tell the difference between two bullets smacking into them with only 150 fps difference in impact speed.

!!!![/QUOTE
the 30-06 is an awesome round . much better than a 308. if you had competed Against German you would say the same thing. the 30-06 stays super sonic to 1000 yards without loading to red line pressures.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2013, 11:50 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

The 30-06 is and was a great all round cartridge but with long range hunting being the focus not just long range shooting it kinda gets left behind, some have a magnum because it says magnum but a good number of us shoot them because we just flat need to launch heavier, better BC bullets faster to get the job done on game at longer ranges. I'll shoot a 22-250 till it runs out of range, then I shoot a 270 WSM which gets me just past a 1000 yards on elk and then I pull the 338 RUM out and sling a 300gr Berger for anything past that, the case is just to get the bullet up to the speed needed to impact game at the range I want to shoot and nothing more. If your hunting range only needs an 06' the rock it, not much need for more!!
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:01 AM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
I think that with a 7mm SAUM compared to a .30-06, both shooting 175's at 2870 fps from 9 pound rifles, the 7mm will have more barrel time recoil impulse than the .30-06. It's the barrel time recoil (before the bullet exits the muzzle) that makes the 7mm a bit harder to shoot accurately. But its the recoil after the bullet's left that's what most folks complain about; it doesn't effect how accurate one can shoot the rifle. In this comparison, the 7mm SAUM also has more recoil after the bullet's left. But not by much.
Seems like the F-Class open team is going to use 7Mag @ 800,900 and 1000yds this year @ Raton.

Official U.S. F-Class Open Rifle Team Website
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  #26  
Old 05-03-2013, 05:46 AM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by TOM H View Post
Seems like the F-Class open team is going to use 7Mag @ 800,900 and 1000yds this year @ Raton.
Which 7mm magnum? I didn't find the specific one on the team's web site. If it's the 7mm Rem. SAUM, I'm not surprised. That round was used by the Army's AMU team to set a record at Perry last year.

With the F-class team's rifles fired in virtual free recoil, it's an excellent choice. That round looks like a proportionally larger version of the 6BR or 6PPC cartridge the benchresters like to use.
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  #27  
Old 05-03-2013, 07:03 AM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by roninflag View Post
the 30-06 is an awesome round . much better than a 308. if you had competed Against German you would say the same thing.
No, I would not. I've competed with the likes of German Salazar and other top classified long range high power competitors; we all held high master classifications; top 3% of all long range classified competitors. Out scored them sometimes, too.

Quote:
the 30-06 stays super sonic to 1000 yards without loading to red line pressures.
So does the .308 Winchester as well as the 7.62 NATO round, and at normal, safe peak pressures, too. They're the two cartridges that ended the use of .30-06 rifles by knowledgable competitors winning matches and setting records at 600 through 1000 yards.

Best comparison is made using the M72 .30-06 match round's bullet leaving at about 2700 fps from an M1 (24" barrel) and the M118 7.62 NATO match round's bullet leaving at about 2600 fps from an M14 (22" barrel) and both had 50,000 CUP average peak pressure specs. The same 172-gr. FMJBT match bullet was used in each and remained supersonic at 1000 yards from both. The NATO round went through the paper about 100 fps slower than the 30 caliber one but its improved accuracy from its shorter, fatter case is one of the reasons the 1000-yard target's scoring rings were made smaller.
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  #28  
Old 05-03-2013, 07:45 AM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
No, I would not. I've competed with the likes of German Salazar and other top classified long range high power competitors; we all held high master classifications; top 3% of all long range classified competitors. Out scored them sometimes, too.

So does the .308 Winchester as well as the 7.62 NATO round, and at normal, safe peak pressures, too. They're the two cartridges that ended the use of .30-06 rifles by knowledgable competitors winning matches and setting records at 600 through 1000 yards.

Best comparison is made using the M72 .30-06 match round's bullet leaving at about 2700 fps from an M1 (24" barrel) and the M118 7.62 NATO match round's bullet leaving at about 2600 fps from an M14 (22" barrel) and both had 50,000 CUP average peak pressure specs. The same 172-gr. FMJBT match bullet was used in each and remained supersonic at 1000 yards from both. The NATO round went through the paper about 100 fps slower than the 30 caliber one but its improved accuracy from its shorter, fatter case is one of the reasons the 1000-yard target's scoring rings were made smaller.
Bart, you are right it can be any 7mm mag. What you should do is post picture what a Palma 308 rifle look like here some Rules and Tips for Palma Rifle Shooting in the USA.
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