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What happened to the '06?

 
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  #71  
Old 05-08-2013, 03:20 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by X-man View Post
I get that you know your way around the reloading thing. That isn't what I was asking though (my bad).

I was referring to this part.
"I'm guessing if you were pushing 80K, you would at least be blowing a bunch of primers"
How do you know he isn't at 80K (or higher) or at what pressure primers start to blow?
I don't know what pressure starts to blow primers and I have the testing gear.
Actually, I wouldn't have a clue as to the actual PSI. What I am looking for is brass failure. I have blown a couple of primers which is definitely more pressure than I want to see and I consider it a screw up on my part when it happens. Bottom line is, IMHO, if your primer pockets are holding then your brass is holding up to whatever pressure is on it. IME, If you're not blowing primers you're a safe distance from catastrophic failure and if your pockets are holding up to 5 or more firings then you're running safe pressures whatever they are.
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  #72  
Old 05-08-2013, 03:57 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

From what I've gleaned from SAAMI, most of the modern belted cases' proof loads are in the upper 80K's to mid 90K's psi range. Rimless ones are in the upper 80K's psi range for the most part, but the .270 Win., .22-.250 Rem., 6mm Rem and .25-06 Rem. proof loads go from the upper 80K's to low 90K's peak pressure ranges . Proof load's primers typically do not blow when tested in barreled actions with dimensional specs met in the critical areas. Which means to me that most of the rimless cases have a lesser ability to handle pressures over 90K psi but a few can handle it safely up to about 91K psi. It probably depends on case wall thickness and design for the most part.

I've shot .308 Win. proof loads with several commercial primers producing their normal 85K to 89K psi and nary a primer was blown in Win. 70 actions nor 7.62 NATO Garand. Also arsenal 7.62 NATO proof loads at almost the same level as .308 ones don't blow primers in 7.62 NATO Garands nor M14's.
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  #73  
Old 05-08-2013, 04:06 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
Actually, I wouldn't have a clue as to the actual PSI. What I am looking for is brass failure. I have blown a couple of primers which is definitely more pressure than I want to see and I consider it a screw up on my part when it happens. Bottom line is, IMHO, if your primer pockets are holding then your brass is holding up to whatever pressure is on it. IME, If you're not blowing primers you're a safe distance from catastrophic failure and if your pockets are holding up to 5 or more firings then you're running safe pressures whatever they are.
If your velocity is within reason then you are correct.
If your velocity is over what is listed in pressure tested data your brass is holding, but you are placing yourself in some form of risk. If you are a few hundred fps over pressure tested data you are in imminent danger.
More than just the brass there is the matter of the action taking the strain...year after year.

The reason I am making noise here is I believe elkaholic has a cartridge about the capacity of the 300RSUAM. Yet he is 250fps over what normal speeds in that cartridge.
Worse than that he is 100fps faster than what is recommended in the 300Win magnum with IMR-4831 by 100fps!

I don't think Elkaholic is stupid or anything else derogatory. I read a few of his posts and he seems totally on the ball.
After the 416 incedent and another friend blowing up a rifle because he could not "read" the pressure in his rifle in the conventional way I bought pressure testing gear.
The truth is you don't need pressure testing gear you just need a chronograph and need to know the cases capacity and you are set.

But that is enough.
The only other guy to raise a red flag was BartB....So that is me done on this subject.

I wish elkaholic well and safe.
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  #74  
Old 05-08-2013, 04:20 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by X-man View Post
The truth is you don't need pressure testing gear you just need a chronograph and need to know the cases capacity and you are set.
My dad shoots a Sherman case and he punches in his barrel length, powder, velocity, case capacity, and then measurements on the bullet into a computer program and he's running around 62,000 tops, he gets strong pressure signs at 64,000 and if I remember right at 68,000 your case will not hold a primer any more in one shot and brass has flowed. It's just a powly type computer but when you punch in the data and run it over a crony it's dang close so it can't be that far of.
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  #75  
Old 05-08-2013, 04:29 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post
My dad shoots a Sherman case and he punches in his barrel length, powder, velocity, case capacity, and then measurements on the bullet into a computer program and he's running around 62,000 tops, he gets strong pressure signs at 64,000 and if I remember right at 68,000 your case will not hold a primer any more in one shot and brass has flowed. It's just a powly type computer but when you punch in the data and run it over a crony it's dang close so it can't be that far of.
The Powley is more of a ballark meter (that I think think the chronograph does just as well).
Even if it was dead accurate are you telling me he can drive 190s at 3050fps at normal pressure?
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  #76  
Old 05-08-2013, 04:42 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

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Originally Posted by X-man View Post
The Powley is more of a ballark meter (that I think think the chronograph does just as well).
Even if it was dead accurate are you telling me he can drive 190s at 3050fps at normal pressure?
He shoots the 6.5 version but same case and runs it to the same pressure signs as elkaholic runs and it runs right where he says it does and what we have run right in line with what it should for capacity.
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  #77  
Old 05-08-2013, 04:54 PM
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Re: What happened to the '06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-man View Post
The Powley is more of a ballark meter (that I think think the chronograph does just as well).
Even if it was dead accurate are you telling me he can drive 190s at 3050fps at normal pressure?
If you are going to continue to beat this to death, you could at least the state the facts as I originally presented them? You talk about 250' faster than a saum. The saum will reach very close to 2900' in some manuals (which I referenced) Also, for some one with the knowledge that you have, you should realize that I also quoted 28" barrel vs. 24" for the saum, AND a longer throat. Sooooooo, what you really are talking here is closer to 150 more velocity than a saum with more useable capacity and a 4 inch longer barrel. I said I was through with this, but I want to make sure that you didn't overlook this!! Does THIS make any sense to you?????...........Rich
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