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what do groups mean?

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Unread 03-17-2011, 09:30 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 372
Re: what do groups mean?

There is one thing I have noticed with every rifle. One main factor is always the amount of torque on the stock screws. I can look at that accustock and see if it is set right but with most you just have to find the sweet spot. one gun may be right when it almost feels loose, where another may feel like it needs to be torqued down with an impact driver. Just depends on the rifle. Like the first reply said, everyone here will have different experiences and opinions, but I think that speaks volumes about the different "personalities" of every rifle. Most modern bolt actions are capable of sub-moa accuracy many of them sub half, but you just have to figure out how it likes to be set up. and when you find what works you need to make note of everything and expect ALL changes to that setup to affect your groups.

Last edited by cfvickers; 03-17-2011 at 09:40 AM.
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Unread 03-17-2011, 02:30 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 899
Re: what do groups mean?

How about a single round hole just slightly larger than bullet diameter @100yds.

You need to shoot at long range and you want a group with very little vertical.

If the group has vertical at 100yds it usually doesn't work out a long range.

I shoot for 1-1.5" of vertical at 600yds for 3 shots.With not much more horizontal depending on the wind of course.

Last edited by RockZ; 03-17-2011 at 03:03 PM.
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Unread 03-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: n.w. pennsylvania
Posts: 90
Re: what do groups mean?

rockZ, thanks for the reply....

I'm shooting a factory gun, the tightest group I have so far at 200 yds has 3 shots vertically over lapping, and the 4th hole at the top of the string off to the right...

The vertical string of all 4 shots measures .58''

obviously you cant tell me what that will do at 4,5,600 yds, but do u think it will hold a descent group?
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Unread 03-17-2011, 03:02 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 899
Re: what do groups mean?

It shows promise with about a .5" group at 200yds.
The only way to know is to shoot at the distance you want to hunt.

I've shot groups that measured in the .1"'s at 100yds and had 5-6 inches of vertical at 600yds beacause of a high es/sd.
At short ranges the velocity spread doesn't show, but as you stretch it out, it shows big time.

Look at the sticky on the ladder testing method that Jason Baney does, that is pretty much how I fine tune my loads at long range.
Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

Last edited by RockZ; 03-17-2011 at 10:15 PM.
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Unread 03-17-2011, 03:27 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 120
Re: what do groups mean?

Here's an important factor that I have found applies to every rifle & load I've ever shot...

No matter how good or bad it shoots, or which way it strings or sends a flyer, I can make it worse.

Point being, shoot enough with the same rest and as close to the same hold, cheek pressure, trigger squeeze, hand position, shoulder pressure, & follow through before jumping to conclusions on equipment. It takes very little wrong on the shooters part to mess up what the rifle is trying to do.
Don Ward
GreyBull Precision LLC
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Unread 03-17-2011, 05:51 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Prosperity, Pa
Posts: 254
Re: what do groups mean?

Bigsal, The gun is junk- sell it to me for $100 and I'll try to get it to shoot!! Awsome group and it should shoot just fine at 1000 yards.
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Unread 03-17-2011, 10:02 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,608
Re: what do groups mean?

what do different group shapes mean?

ex. if all shots are vertical, horizontal, triangle?
Everyone should know this. It's common knowledge...

A group that has horizontal distribution means that some of the bullets went left or right of the intended POA/POI.

While a group that's vertically distributed means that some went high or low of the intended POA/POI.

Actually, I read an article once where the guy was explaining how seating depth would cause the dispersion to change from horizontal to vertical and that there was a sweet spot just in between. But, I was never able to reproduce that exactly. ...just too many variables.
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