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What can't .223 kill?

 
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:57 AM
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Re: What can't .223 kill?

Why would anyone shoot 1500+ elephants? Why would anyone shoot one elephant? Maybe if you're really hungry...
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  #9  
Old 05-14-2010, 12:10 PM
436 436 is offline
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Re: What can't .223 kill?

Well, to venture a guess I’d say “Ivory” which equals money; it was a different time with little or no conservation programs in Africa. The lesson just show that small caliber can kill outside there ballistic foot print. I’m sure Lt. Col. Craig Boddington , as a modern day hunter has clouned more then one elephant in his life time as an African hunter, but that’s really beside the point of small calibers killing. Even Roy Weatherby believed his favorite cartridge {and one of mine} the; .257 Weatherby Magnum kill far outside it ballistic foot print... and as killed some very large African {big five} game with it.

I’…, like yourself’.., can’t find one really good reason to kill that beautiful animal today. But… I sure understand why a hunter might want too try; it’s in our DNA as hunters.
436

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  #10  
Old 05-14-2010, 12:33 PM
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Re: What can't .223 kill?

436,

That is some interesting reading, and interesting statistics. Notice that the 6.5 and 7mm bullets were relatively heavy for caliber, high SD FMJ's. A sign of the times...And you are right, bullet placement really is important!

I'm not trying to put anyone down for their choice of caliber, but I would guess if you polled every member of this site no one would opt to take a .223 on a big game hunt. It is probably fine for culling does and fawns at less than 200 yards, but in my opinion it is considered a varmint cartridge for a reason.
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  #11  
Old 05-14-2010, 02:02 PM
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Re: What can't .223 kill?

Anyone that has shot for any length of time has learned that so many little things can go wrong when you squeeze the trigger. An inadvertant flinch; a last second drop in your sight picture due to an inadequate rest; that one round of ammo that becomes a flier; a sudden gust of wind; the unexpected movement of the target; yada-yada-yada. You name it - and if you shoot long enough - you will experience it for yourself. That's why we practice. We learn from our mistakes.

To me, there was little in this world more satisfying than taking large game with a small caliber. My prowess as a marksman was made manifest by the animals I took. Likewise, I learned there was nothing more sickening or heart-wrenching to me than shooting large game with a small caliber and hitting the quarry but missing the vitals. All the deer and other game that I have successfully shot with a small caliber cannot erase the memory of the one doe that I hit, but failed to kill. She ran into dense cover and balled and squeeled for the next 15 minutes. When I crossed the canyon to finish her off, she would struggle downhill and I could not get off another shot. This went on for another 10-15 minutes as she proclaimed loudly to the entire world what I had just done to her. While I was probably the only one in the forest that could hear her, I felt my shortcommings had been laid bare to the entire world. The good news is - I learned from that experience. I now take enough gun into the woods to humanely take down the animal I am hunting, even when things don't go right.
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2010, 05:18 PM
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Re: What can't .223 kill?

Full size elephants have been taken with a single shot from a 22lr. It's just like realestate...... Location, location, location.
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  #13  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:31 PM
436 436 is offline
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Re: What can't .223 kill?

Its true larger calibers help a little better in poorly placed shots; some times. I've heard animals cry when hit with large game cartridges as well as small ones... not saying smaller is better. The question simple is; "can they kill large game"... YES. Should you use them? That's what the ethical hunter has to decide. At one time the .22 Savage High Power was considered big medicine for the big cats, like the Bengal Tiger... I guess they, the PH's didn't know any better...??? but that didn't stop them from killing those cats with one, it worked for them... Oh yeah, a few didn't get a second chance to discuss the merits of using small calibers, but that's part of the experience of the wild....

As for killing an Elephant with a .22 long rifle... tell me more... that's got to be some kinda trick shooting on the Dark Continent in my book. I've have a good buddy hunting in Africa right now; I'd love to email him that story...

He {my buddy} has a home in Ennis Montana and one in McKinney Texas... when he’s in Texas all he does is hog hunt... using his AR15's and AR10's he say's; “he doesn’t have a problem killing them with either”. They kill up to 20 plus hogs a night each’…, on their hunts; and they hunt a lot!
He reloads and uses good bullets... You’d be hard pressed to convince him a .223 Rem {small calibers} doesn't kill. He's also popped his far share of deer with a .223 Rem’…, as I have... Not my choice’…, but they do kill with today’s modern bullet technology. Today Barnes or Bergers .22 caliber bullet coming out of a .223 Rem type cartridge with its velocity is pretty damn tough on bone and muscle. Nothing that the big ones, with the same bullet(s) can’t due better... but never the less the .22 cal has some very kick butt bullets out there these days. There are States where hunting game like deer is legal with a .223 Rem, the hunter just needs to be responsible and place the shot properly to use them humanely for hunting. It also helps to use the right rifle with this cartridge {and other similar cartridges} for a fast follow up shot. For years I hunted { Idaho Whitetail.. although I prefer my M94’s in .44 Mag & .30 30} with a my 1960’s Remington M760 in .223 Rem as well as my H&K M630 & AR15 SP-1 It’s all about a second or third fast follow up for this type of cartridge in the field. Pumps, Semi Auto and Lever rifles… The single shots and bolts are just a little slow if you’re a once a year hunter with very little range time. Lastly, it’s not a JDAM’ keep the range inside its ballistical foot print.
Back to the point, it can and does “kill” big game.
Just my .02
436
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:50 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,539
Re: What can't .223 kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azsugarbear View Post
Anyone that has shot for any length of time has learned that so many little things can go wrong when you squeeze the trigger. An inadvertant flinch; a last second drop in your sight picture due to an inadequate rest; that one round of ammo that becomes a flier; a sudden gust of wind; the unexpected movement of the target; yada-yada-yada. You name it - and if you shoot long enough - you will experience it for yourself. That's why we practice. We learn from our mistakes.

To me, there was little in this world more satisfying than taking large game with a small caliber. My prowess as a marksman was made manifest by the animals I took. Likewise, I learned there was nothing more sickening or heart-wrenching to me than shooting large game with a small caliber and hitting the quarry but missing the vitals. All the deer and other game that I have successfully shot with a small caliber cannot erase the memory of the one doe that I hit, but failed to kill. She ran into dense cover and balled and squeeled for the next 15 minutes. When I crossed the canyon to finish her off, she would struggle downhill and I could not get off another shot. This went on for another 10-15 minutes as she proclaimed loudly to the entire world what I had just done to her. While I was probably the only one in the forest that could hear her, I felt my shortcommings had been laid bare to the entire world. The good news is - I learned from that experience. I now take enough gun into the woods to humanely take down the animal I am hunting, even when things don't go right.
+1

I feel the same way. To me it shows lack of respect for the animal not to Carry enough rifle to
make quick humane kills EVERY TIME.

Also one should not carry a rifle that is to big or has to much recoil to make a well placed shot.

J E CUSTOM
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