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Weatherby Vanguard TR

 
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  #15  
Old 09-01-2013, 04:24 PM
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Re: Weatherby Vanguard TR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
In Australia the Howa and Weatherby V are very popular as we find they shoot great. I have a 223 Howa and it's as accurate as my Sako's .
Try one I think you will be surprised at how good it is.
The original design came from an Australian company CMC who got Howa to build a rifle called the Australian CMC Mountaineer .
From that original design Howa in Japan now knocks off the Howa and Weatherby v and a few others .
The only thing I would like to see improved is Howa fit a Sako style extractor. .
Interesting BB, do you have a date for the introduction of the Mountaineer? The Vanguard was introduced in 1970. According to Chuck Hawks (and he might be mistaken?) Weatherby provided Howa direction in the development of the Vanguard.

Quote:
Weatherby showed Howa how to make a superior, modern bolt action and they learned the lesson well. The Vanguard is a heavily modified Mauser pattern action that incorporates as many Weatherby Mark V features as possible. Its Mauser heritage shows in its small body bolt, dual opposed front locking lugs and 90-degree bolt rotation. Vanguard features common to both the Mauser 98 and Mark V include a flat bottom, forged and machined steel receiver with an integral recoil lug, generous loading/ejection port, one piece bolt, one piece firing pin and hinged magazine floorplate. The release for the latter is mounted externally in the front of the trigger guard.
From the Mark V action the Vanguard action derives its three gas escape vents in the side of the bolt body and a streamlined steel bolt shroud that completely encloses the rear of the bolt.



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A little more history from Wiki...

Quote:
The Mark V action remained relatively unchanged during the first five years of production. Shortly after, manufacturing moved from PFI in the U.S. to J. P. Sauer in Germany. In addition, the safety was redesigned and moved from the receiver to the bolt, which was changed from a smooth to a fluted surface. The first major change came in 1963 when Weatherby designed a shorter and more trim Mark V action for their 224 Weatherby Magnum varmint round, new for 1964. The bolt in this smaller Mark V action only had six locking lugs, versus the nine found on its bigger brother. Rifles chambered for the new 224 Wby Magnum were dubbed "Varmintmaster." The Varmintmaster was later offered in 22-250 Remington, making this the first non-Weatherby cartridge offered in the Mark V. In 1967, the 9-lug Mark V action was offered for the first time in 30-06. These two cartridges, the 30-06 and 22-250, remained the only two non-Weatherby chamberings offered in production Mark V rifles until the mid-1990s. (Though Weatherby would build a custom Mark V to a customer's specifications in virtually any caliber.) Today, all non-Weatherby calibers are only offered in 6-lug versions of the action. This makes 9-lug, 30-06 Mark Vs (whether made in Germany or Japan) somewhat of a rarity.[1]
In the late 1960s, Weatherby contracted with Howa of Japan to build a Weatherby rifle that would be more affordable for the average hunter. The result was the Weatherby Vanguard which was introduced in 1970, the same year that production of the Mark V moved to Japan.[2] Based on the Howa 1500 bolt action, and initially offered only in standard calibers, the Vanguard provided an attractive alternative for buyers in the market for a sporting bolt action rifle like the Winchester Model 70 or Remington Model 700. The Vanguard is now available in select Weatherby magnum calibers.[3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherby

Not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg, but the Howa's have many features similar to the Mark V
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  #16  
Old 09-01-2013, 04:59 PM
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Re: Weatherby Vanguard TR

Quote:
Originally Posted by angus-5024 View Post
MontanaRifleman,
I believe that a few years back there was a heated debate on the strongest factory action on the market. After all the dust settled we had several very well known smiths give there opinion and crunch some numbers, and the Weatherby Mark V and the Sako (I think 85) came out as the strongest. I think that the main factor was the lug bearing surface and thickness as well as the barrel shank diameter... the only two safe actions to go for the .378 WBY case.
If I remember correctly the thread was around the time that Kirby was in the R&D stages of the Raptor, so he was heavily involved in the conversation.

Apart from those two actions I think that most others were a wash with there strengths and faults, but the HOWA/Vanguard, rem 700 and M70 were on top of the strength pile.
I would like to read that thread if I could find it. I have no doubt that the Mark V is a stronger action, but I'm sure Howa's are close.

As for the Mark V and Sako being the only actions "strong enough" for the .378, I don't think so. Any action that is strong enough for a 338 LM is strong enough for a .378. And 338's have been built on Howa's and 700 although there is debate on how good of an idea that is. I wouldn't do it.

I have a Sako M85 SM (short mag) action and side by side comparison I don't see how it would be any stronger than the Howa. In fact, there is more steel in the Howa feed rail/raceway on the ejection port side than the M85. It is also a lot more beefy there than the 700.

Bottom line is that all these actions are strong enough for the cartridges they were designed for. To say one is stronger than another is basically meaningless.
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  #17  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:50 PM
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Re: Weatherby Vanguard TR

Sully,

I just had a 7mmx300win mag built on a vanguard action. depending on which bullets I use I am able to mag feed some of them. I found that I can load the 168 bergers to the rifling and mag feed them. the 180s I cant mag feed but I can eject a live round. my box measures 3.530 btw.
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  #18  
Old 09-02-2013, 09:58 AM
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Re: Weatherby Vanguard TR

Quote:
Originally Posted by cummin_un_glued View Post
Sully,

I just had a 7mmx300win mag built on a vanguard action. depending on which bullets I use I am able to mag feed some of them. I found that I can load the 168 bergers to the rifling and mag feed them. the 180s I cant mag feed but I can eject a live round. my box measures 3.530 btw.
Mucho thanks for that input
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  #19  
Old 09-02-2013, 09:25 PM
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Re: Weatherby Vanguard TR

Quote:
Originally Posted by angus-5024 View Post
MontanaRifleman,
I believe that a few years back there was a heated debate on the strongest factory action on the market. After all the dust settled we had several very well known smiths give there opinion and crunch some numbers, and the Weatherby Mark V and the Sako (I think 85) came out as the strongest. I think that the main factor was the lug bearing surface and thickness as well as the barrel shank diameter... the only two safe actions to go for the .378 WBY case.
If I remember correctly the thread was around the time that Kirby was in the R&D stages of the Raptor, so he was heavily involved in the conversation.

Apart from those two actions I think that most others were a wash with there strengths and faults, but the HOWA/Vanguard, rem 700 and M70 were on top of the strength pile.
Don't know that I agree on the Sako 85 . However it would be extemely hard to tell which action is the strongest without purposely blowing some up to test them , With many modern actions being investment castings the metal thickness is not a real good guide unless it's soild forged and machined steel and you know exactly what the steel is and it's heat treatment . Your right the barrel reinforce / shank is also a very important part of the action strength that has to be taken into account as to how big a diameter it is and how much steel has been removed from that to chamber the cartridge .
It's a brave gunsmith that states which actions is the all time strongest without stating which diameter case is chambered in the barrel.
I prefer the Sako 75 action myself over the 85 .
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  #20  
Old 09-02-2013, 10:45 PM
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Re: Weatherby Vanguard TR

The Howa 1500 is in here.


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  #21  
Old 09-03-2013, 01:33 AM
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Re: Weatherby Vanguard TR

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
Interesting BB, do you have a date for the introduction of the Mountaineer? The Vanguard was introduced in 1970. According to Chuck Hawks (and he might be mistaken?) Weatherby provided Howa direction in the development of the Vanguard.



A little more history from Wiki...



Not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg, but the Howa's have many features similar to the Mark V

The Howa and the Weatherby Vanguard are essentially the same gun off the same production line. The features are the same as a CMC Australian Mountaineer of which I was shooting before Howas came along .
The design is nothing like a Mauser 98 except in basic front locking concept which every front locker can claim.
The front of the bolt is Remington except the extractor which is ALA an M16 claw . The bolt dissasemble is Sako . The fixed recoil lug ALA Mauser .
I think a lot of stuff is said in advertisng blurbs that end up in history files as a fact and it's not always right.
My CMC Australian Mountaineer made in Japan is identicle to a a Howa 1500 action and it was made before the Howa brand came out , what year I can't say for sure .
The CMC company is now gone but Howa has copied their design , maybe they bought the designs or maybe they always owned them , I don't know .
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