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TSX ogive changed- no notice!

 
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  #1  
Old 03-09-2013, 02:07 PM
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Location: Lake Tahoe, Calif.
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TSX ogive changed- no notice!

Has anyone noticed that Barnes recently changed the length and ogive of the .277 130gr TSX? The are now .070" shorter, and if you use the same die setting as used on their previous profile, they seat .020" deeper! I found this out the hard way by loading up a batch and then noticing the difference between the new batch and ones I had left from before.

My big concern is that with a new profile, a new round of load development will be required. Seating the bullet deeper will result in higher pressure and there is a .020" greater jump to the lands. If I were pushing the limits of pressure with the previous profile, this deeper seating could be dangerous, no? And given that my load is now somewhat random, I have a batch of 20 expensive rounds that I have no idea of how they will shoot. I am getting all set for a pig hunt, and now don't have time and a place (out of the deep snow where I live) to test new loads, so I'm less than thrilled with Barnes at the moment.

One important thing regarding the change is that BARNES KEPT THE SAME MODEL NUMBER (27742) AND THERE IS NO INDICATION THAT THE "NEW" TSX ARE DIFFERENT THAN PREVIOUS BOXES. THAT JUST SEEMS WRONG!

In engineering, if we make any change to ANYTHING in a product, we must document it for everyone else downstream. Glad these Barnes guys are not working for NASA!
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2013, 04:14 PM
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Location: Maple Valley, Washington
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Re: TSX ogive changed- no notice!

You are right, from an engineering perspective that is complete BS. I would not have expected it from Barnes and have not seen this in any of the various Barnes bullets that I shoot but I will check this should I buy more.
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  #3  
Old 03-09-2013, 09:09 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
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Re: TSX ogive changed- no notice!

I've seen it with other brands too as far as changing the pill's nose without telling anyone... btw, a longer run at the rifling(shorter round) will usually lower peak pressure because of reduced engraving forces needed. Pistols will have issues with pressure if you shorten the rounds too much though.
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  #4  
Old 03-09-2013, 09:35 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lake Tahoe, Calif.
Posts: 233
Re: TSX ogive changed- no notice!

Well, it will be interesting to see what the change does to the impact point and grouping. I still have a few unfired rounds of the same load & components but with the previous bullet profile along with the new ones I just made up so when I do make it to a range I'll be able to do a direct comparison.

Considering the meticulous nature that precision reloading requires, and the effect in behavior and performance a change like this has, I think the Barnes folks are really out to lunch for not somehow informing the customer that the product has changed. If they didn't want to change the model number, how about a "New and Improved" banner or something?
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  #5  
Old 03-09-2013, 10:21 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
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Re: TSX ogive changed- no notice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootin4fun View Post
Has anyone noticed that Barnes recently changed the length and ogive of the .277 130gr TSX? The are now .070" shorter, and if you use the same die setting as used on their previous profile, they seat .020" deeper! I found this out the hard way by loading up a batch and then noticing the difference between the new batch and ones I had left from before.

My big concern is that with a new profile, a new round of load development will be required. Seating the bullet deeper will result in higher pressure and there is a .020" greater jump to the lands. If I were pushing the limits of pressure with the previous profile, this deeper seating could be dangerous, no? And given that my load is now somewhat random, I have a batch of 20 expensive rounds that I have no idea of how they will shoot. I am getting all set for a pig hunt, and now don't have time and a place (out of the deep snow where I live) to test new loads, so I'm less than thrilled with Barnes at the moment.

One important thing regarding the change is that BARNES KEPT THE SAME MODEL NUMBER (27742) AND THERE IS NO INDICATION THAT THE "NEW" TSX ARE DIFFERENT THAN PREVIOUS BOXES. THAT JUST SEEMS WRONG!

In engineering, if we make any change to ANYTHING in a product, we must document it for everyone else downstream. Glad these Barnes guys are not working for NASA!
Barnes rec seating depth off the lands from .030" to .070" for best accuracy. I shoot the 140gr TSX in my 270 and they do vary little from lot# to lot#. You may be deeper but you should check how far from the lands that may of not changed much and if you have concern why not call Barnes.
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  #6  
Old 03-10-2013, 05:34 AM
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Location: Tucson Az
Posts: 1,235
Re: TSX ogive changed- no notice!

Don't you just hate it when they change the bullet design? You wonder what went wrong with the rifle!

When Barnes first came out with the X bullet they changed many of their bullets several times those first few years. Never any notice. Anyone remember those days of perpetual redesigned bullets?

20 yrs ago I purchased a box of 85 gr 6mm partitions. Turns out it was an older box. I found a great load and decided to buy more. The next box was newer and the groups were aweful. I called Nosler and they admitted they changed the design. Had to work up another load. It was the first time I encountered this issue and it was a real letdown in the faith I had in the company. No notice.

Two years ago I ran low on 200 gr Accubonds. It had been at least six years since I bought those original accubonds. Sure enough the load didn't shoot with the new bullets. After some careful controls checking rifle, I called Nosler and they said they changed the bullet. No notice.


So far Berger hasn't changed any of the bullets I use but most are hybrids. Sure hope they give notice or change the product number if they do.

Incidentally Sierra says they never alter a design. If they do change something they change the product number. Nice to know.

You know it will happen to us again.

Speaking of design changes wait to you get to be in your 60s. If you really like something you had better buy several now as they will be different next year. You would think the marketing folks would have done more research. Baby boomers are a large part of the buying market and we tend to be loyal to stuff and hate change for change's sake. Needed to say that, feel better now.....
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  #7  
Old 03-10-2013, 09:24 AM
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Location: Great Falls, MT
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Re: TSX ogive changed- no notice!

I'm all about changes (esp. for improvement) but as common courtesy (esp. in regards to safety), notification to end-users is a MUST ... regardless of tolerance, NASA/engineering or not!
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