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# Throat length, Pressure,& MV

#1
09-07-2004, 03:34 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southern Wisconsin Posts: 1,255
Throat length, Pressure,& MV

I've got a question for the technical guys out there.
I've got a 6.5-284 that has a relativly short throat in it, my overall length is 2.965 on a stoney point comparator. I'm shooting a 140 sst over Re 22 and at 49.3 grains I start getting pressure signs.
Now I know I can get the throat lengthened and load more powder before reaching max pressure, but given that I'm at max pressure at either length will there be a difference in MV with the added powder or is max pressure only going to generate so many FPS?
I may be over thinking this but thought I'd ask.
Chris
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#2
09-07-2004, 06:11 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NC, oceanfront Posts: 2,548
Re: Throat length, Pressure,& MV

There will be a difference in BOTH pressure and MV.
This, assuming you stay the same distance from the lands, and add powder to maintain same fill ratio (given that you moved the bullet out of the case alittle).
I'll throw out some hypotheticals here, using QuickLoad to illustrate.

With a 6.5/284 pushing a 140smk, into the lands, .525" of total bullet seated, out a 28" barrel, 49.3 of Re22[89.1% fill].
I'm showing 57Kpsi and MV= 2900. Keep in mind this isn't calibrated(I don't have a 6.5/284).

Same conditions, only seated shallower @ .425"(throat extended .100"), still into the lands:
55Kpsi, MV=2870, fill=87.1%

Now adjust powder for original fill:
89.1%fill=50.5gr, 58Kpsi, MV=2930
BOTH PRESS AND MV WENT UP.

To match original MV and Pressure:
49.9gr, 88.1%fill

[ 09-07-2004: Message edited by: Mikecr ]
#3
09-09-2004, 06:39 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southern Wisconsin Posts: 1,255
Re: Throat length, Pressure,& MV

Thanks Mikecr
I was giving some thought to lengthening the throat, but for such minimal increases I think I'll just chase the lands as the barrel wears with use. Appreciate the numbers.
Chris
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Ignorance can be treated with education, sadly there is no cure for stupidity.
#4
09-10-2004, 04:54 PM
 Silver Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tremonton, UT Posts: 136
Re: Throat length, Pressure,& MV

A question for you guys since mine fits into what winmagman states. I have a custom 300WM, and I have shot a few hundred rounds out of it so far (700 maybe). The lands have moved forward .07" approx since it was new. Is this much normal? I always allowed 3-5 minutes of cool time between shots. Occasionally, the barrel would get warm, but not hot enough I couldn't rest my wrist on the barrel for quite some time. If it is normal, is it time to turn the barrel back a couple threads, and if it is not normal, do I need to take it back to my smith?
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#5
09-10-2004, 05:42 PM
 SPONSOR Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Fort Shaw, Montana Posts: 6,162
Re: Throat length, Pressure,& MV

Shilen30,

That is a tricky one, I have seen same brand barrels act completely different as far as throat erosion goes. barrel steel varies from lot to lot, even the good stuff.

There are several factors that can effect how fast teh throat erodes, is ball powder being used or stick powder?

Is the rifle being cleaned with a bore guide?

What are the throat dimensions in the chamber?

Stick powders tend to erode throats faster then ball powders on average because they are more physically abrasive and they tend to burn a little hotter then ball powders.

If a bore guide is not used, this will accelerate the wash out of the throat.

If the throat is loose, which on a custom rifle it had better not be but it is not uncommon, your throat will erode much faster then with a quality match grade throat cut 0.0002" to 0.0005" over bullet diameter.

This is because it allows much more gas to escape around the bullet and this gas basically acts like a blow torch on the throat.

For a 300 WM to have .070" throat erosion in only 700 rounds would be quite a bit with the care you have taken of the barrel. Still not unheard of depending on the factors listed above.

Having a 6 or 8 groove barrel will result in faster throat erosion then a 3 or 4 groove barrel.

There are alot of variables!!

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

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Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
#6
09-11-2004, 09:32 PM
 Silver Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tremonton, UT Posts: 136
Re: Throat length, Pressure,& MV

Kirby,

Thanks a bunch! I e-mailed you a while ago about possibly doing a 6.5-284 for me. I got the job I was after and as soon as I finish up my defense you will be the one to build the rifle. I may also send this 300 up to you to rechamber and set back a couple threads. I have a 22-250 that has fired more rounds than the 300 and it has not shown near the erosion as the 300.
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"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms" - Josey Wales
#7
10-24-2004, 07:36 AM
 Silver Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: MD. Posts: 225
Re: Throat length, Pressure,& MV

Shilen30
I had the same thing happen with a 300 win Sendero after 500 rounds. Found out it was not throat erosion. The batch of NBT's I got had the Ogive further from the tip about 15 thou. Nosler Rep advised this was within tolerance. Set em back out and it was as good as new [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Now for each rifle I keep an early bullet with an OAL measurement at lands for future erosion check.

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