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Testing Friction Reduction of Bullet Coatings

 
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  #15  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:43 PM
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Re: Testing Friction Reduction of Bullet Coatings

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Originally Posted by jake50 View Post
I used some snake oil in my 30/378 Accumark. Did the before and after on the crony, before 180 grnx 114.5 Retumbo 3480 (hot) treated the barrel
then i used 190 grn Berger with 110.5 Retumbo 3460 fps
Groups 3 shot x 3 avereged .54" For me Accuvel works ..
A significant reduction in pressure and less than a 1% reduction in velocity for a slightly heavier bullet, probably indicates a significant reduction in barrel friction. However, it is not evident that the Accuvel rather than the change from a solid copper X bullet to a jacketed lead Berger was the cause of reduced friction. Our testing has shown that solid copper TSX bullets tend to have roughly 50% more friction than jacketed lead bullets. And we believe that the older X bullets without the grooves would have even more friction.

Sound scientific testing requires only changing one factor at a time. Different pressure observations can be caused by different primers, different lots of brass, different temperature between the two tests, different lots of powders, etc. In our friction tests, we have been careful that the only thing we changed was the explicit factor under study. This has allowed us to accurately quantify the friction of different bullets.

Assessing the effectiveness of Accuvel is further hindered by the fact that no scientific data appears to be available, and the company appears to be out of business.
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  #16  
Old 08-10-2012, 12:10 AM
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Re: Testing Friction Reduction of Bullet Coatings

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Originally Posted by Michael Courtney View Post
A significant reduction in pressure and less than a 1% reduction in velocity for a slightly heavier bullet, probably indicates a significant reduction in barrel friction. However, it is not evident that the Accuvel rather than the change from a solid copper X bullet to a jacketed lead Berger was the cause of reduced friction. Our testing has shown that solid copper TSX bullets tend to have roughly 50% more friction than jacketed lead bullets. And we believe that the older X bullets without the grooves would have even more friction.

Sound scientific testing requires only changing one factor at a time. Different pressure observations can be caused by different primers, different lots of brass, different temperature between the two tests, different lots of powders, etc. In our friction tests, we have been careful that the only thing we changed was the explicit factor under study. This has allowed us to accurately quantify the friction of different bullets.

Assessing the effectiveness of Accuvel is further hindered by the fact that no scientific data appears to be available, and the company appears to be out of business.
Sorry there was a small misprint it was a 180 Nosler BT not Barnes.
I have used it also on my 243 same thing happened . Yeh the web site no longer exists , but i still stay in contact with the inventor Funny thing when it worked i didnt want to tell anyone ,just to keep it to myself. I have used Militec-1 in one of my other rifles it did nothing . All the differing primers etc would not increase or decrease velocity to such an extent, all bullets were seated the same OAL same primer etc. As i said i am happy it works for me.
Cheers
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  #17  
Old 08-10-2012, 06:17 AM
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Re: Testing Friction Reduction of Bullet Coatings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jake50 View Post
Sorry there was a small misprint it was a 180 Nosler BT not Barnes.
I have used it also on my 243 same thing happened . Yeh the web site no longer exists , but i still stay in contact with the inventor Funny thing when it worked i didnt want to tell anyone ,just to keep it to myself. I have used Militec-1 in one of my other rifles it did nothing . All the differing primers etc would not increase or decrease velocity to such an extent, all bullets were seated the same OAL same primer etc. As i said i am happy it works for me.
Cheers
The 180 NBT has a much thicker jacket than the Berger, so I would expect more friction. It also has a harder lead core (harder lead alloy) which also tends to increase friction in the bore.

Also, using a different primer can cause several different effects:
1) We've tested primers that increased barrel friction by 50% or so.
2) Primers with softer cups will appear to show higher signs of pressure because they are more distorted even if the pressure is the same.
3) Retumbo is an unusual powder. Changing a single component (bullet or primer) can have more pronounced effects than other powders in the same range of burn rates.

Sound science does not allow for confidence drawn from observations ascribing causality to one factor when multiple factors were changed. Even if one factor seems more likely than others, the confidence level will be low. Furthermore, the ability for observations to be repeated by independent parties is important to the scientific method. The lack of ongoing product availability make further testing difficult with regard to friction redicing claims. It also makes discussion more academic and not very relevant to shooters because even if the stuff works, they can't get it.
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:20 AM
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Re: Testing Friction Reduction of Bullet Coatings

I wasnt trying to market it for the maker , i just said it works for me..
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  #19  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:34 AM
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Re: Testing Friction Reduction of Bullet Coatings

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Originally Posted by jake50 View Post
I wasnt trying to market it for the maker , i just said it works for me..
Cod liver oil really works for me.

Ever since I started taking cod liver oil, stopped smoking, and lost 50 lbs, I've shaved 2 full seconds off my time in the 100 yard dash.

Women find me more attractive too.

That cod liver oil really works for me!
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  #20  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:46 AM
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Re: Testing Friction Reduction of Bullet Coatings

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Originally Posted by Michael Courtney View Post
Cod liver oil really works for me.

Ever since I started taking cod liver oil, stopped smoking, and lost 50 lbs, I've shaved 2 full seconds off my time in the 100 yard dash.

Women find me more attractive too.

That cod liver oil really works for me!

Good,, stick to it.
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  #21  
Old 08-10-2012, 08:35 AM
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Re: Testing Friction Reduction of Bullet Coatings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Courtney View Post
Cod liver oil really works for me.

Ever since I started taking cod liver oil, stopped smoking, and lost 50 lbs, I've shaved 2 full seconds off my time in the 100 yard dash.

Women find me more attractive too.

That cod liver oil really works for me!


LOL! Here I was thinking you were all business....


I would like to get some info in regards to the Monometal bullets (specifically Barnes) as I shoot a BUNCH of those. I believe it was your first post discussing 223 projectiles. If I recall correctly, the barnes TSX experienced a friction reduction of less than 1% with the HBN coating correct? Any hypothesis on why that would be? Lack of bearing surface maybe?
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