Terminal Balistics

[jwp475]

Originally Posted by devildoc

I would challenge those assumptions, both the .475 linebaugh and .243 put out very similar Ke (~<2000fpe) when you are using the 100gr class bullets for the .243, not to mention I'd say it's a bold statement to assume the .475 works better on big game....at what range? Within 100yds? Would that change if you chose a lighter jacketed .243 for those <100yd shots? I suspect it would.

The 475 is about 300 FPE behind the 243 when compairing a 100 grain at 3000FPS and a 420 in the 475 at 1350. The 420 is the preferred wight for large game IMHO and experience..

If you want to shoot large game with a 243 have at it a vary naive approach in my opinion and when penetration is short a causes a problem be sure and report it..


One shot complete pass through and the Bull went no where less FPE than a 243, yet much better penetration and tissue damage






The next 2 photos are of the same Elks rib cage


This one is the exit of a 180 grain from a 300 Win with an impact velocity of approx. 2600 FPS for 2700 FPE






This one is the exit of my 500 JRH with a 440 grain at 950 FPS for 882 FPE







FPE doesn't look very accurate to me.....

[devildoc]

What kind of bullets were you using for the 300 & 500? How bout the load on the .475? What ranges?

[jwp475]

I shoot Flat point hard cast in my hunting revolver exclusively... The buffalo was taken with the 500 Linebaugh with a 525grain WLFN at about 1100 FPS and rang was about 45 yards. That is 1410 FPE for the 500 with the 525 yet it has out penetrated the 475 with a 420 flat point hard cast at 1382 FPS not by much but more is more and also leave a slightly larger wound channel.

The 300 Win was shooting a 180 grain at about 3070 FPS and the range on the Elk was 286 yards at about 1200 feet of elevation. Exball calculated velocity at that range at 2600 FPS...

[SheepShooter]

Damage to target tissue is equal to: velocity^2 * diameter^2...
Penetration in target tissue is equal to: mass * velocity^2 / diameter^2...

Savest way to have more damage and more penetration is to go up in velocity...

Changing only diameter (actualy it is bullet frontal area size) will make one effect go up and the other go down...
Changing mass will help in penetration...

Bullet diameter/area size changes because of bullet deformation/fragmentation...
Fragmentation means bigger area sizes...
You get different deformation with same bullet at different velocities...
Choose the right bullet typ for the target and (caliber) velocity...

For every target you shoot you will have a different target medium setup...
And the reaction of the target to the same damage can be different...

[devildoc]

Originally Posted by jwp475

I shoot Flat point hard cast in my hunting revolver exclusively... The buffalo was taken with the 500 Linebaugh with a 525grain WLFN at about 1100 FPS and rang was about 45 yards. That is 1410 FPE for the 500 with the 525 yet it has out penetrated the 475 with a 420 flat point hard cast at 1382 FPS not by much but more is more and also leave a slightly larger wound channel.

The 300 Win was shooting a 180 grain at about 3070 FPS and the range on the Elk was 286 yards at about 1200 feet of elevation. Exball calculated velocity at that range at 2600 FPS...

Well, I don't think hard cast bullets are quite applicable to what we're talking about, I guess they are used for hunting by some and in some cases where max penetration on extremely thick skinned game they may be a good choice. I guess your offerings bring up other questions; 1) is penetration a good indicator of trauma? 2) Is exit wound a good indicator of trauma?

Though we tend to disagree on alot of points about terminal ballistics, these discussions have illustrated why terminal ballistics is such a widely debated topic. There are no easy answers and being as it covers such a wide variety of conditions one has to tailor his tool kit to the conditions he is expecting to encounter. Each condition has it's own set of limiting factors and if a shooter doesn't address those limiting factors he's liable to recieve poor performance.

Take for instance two conditions, one being your buffalo hunt and one being a shot on a prairie dog. For the sake of simplicity lets assume that both shots will be taken at the same range, and roughly the same anatomical shot placement. For my own purposes lets say that shot placement is not Ideal and punches through the exteme bases of the lungs and halfway between the lateral midline and the spine.

Obviously our limiting factors for each condition are opposite, the buffalo being penetration and the prairie dog being expansion/quick energy dump. To complicate matters the prairie dog takes a whole lot less volume of trauma to make a clean DRT kill than the Buffalo, and we don't really give a rats posterior how much meat damage we do to the prairie dog.

(to be continued, my brother just got home 15mins ago from the sandbox)

[Varminator 911]

I'm with jwp on this one. What has worked in Africa on the worlds toughtest game for the last 100 yrs is big bullets not too fast. True we have better bullets now for the high velocity loads, but I think bigger is still better on large, hard to kill game. I'm not talking deer. You can kill them with anything and they are suseptible to high speed bullets that fragment.

On big tough to kill game like Cape Buffalo, big bullets simply work better. They eat little fragmenting bullets for lunch. The 9.3x62 has has been the 30-06 of Africa for a good reason. It's a dependable killer of tough animals that can be put in an easy to carry and shoot package. A 286 gr bullet such as the TSX at 2400fps from a 9.3x62 will cleanly kill anything short of an elephant. If you'd rather have a 257 Weatherby fine, but not me. The bigger bullet is way more dependable even if the 257 is shooting a TSX.

[jwp475]

The handgun rounds demonstrate the inaccuracy of FPE as the sole determining factor...


With the Prairie dog the extreme amount of Hydraulic Pressure causes the tissue to expand past it's elastic limits and rips his body apart. The same will happen on a Moose, but the wound would be shallow and not deep enough for the lack of momentum.. A high amount of momentum is not needed for the Prairie Dog, High Hydraulic pressure created Quickly is preferred..


You are exactly correct Terminal ballistics is a combination of different dynamics that must be balance for the most effective results..