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Sorry if this Starts another Argument

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Unread 07-17-2005, 07:41 PM
LB LB is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 423
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

What is so unique about the scapula for transmitting a "massive shock wave"?

Good hunting. LB
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Unread 07-18-2005, 06:25 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mathias wv
Posts: 987
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

the large flat bones in the shoulder are the area of most resistance in most 4 legged animals, it lies against the spine, and covers most of the vitals. I'll see if I can find the article again but it was a while ago that I read it.
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Unread 07-20-2005, 11:07 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BC
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Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

Ok, let me take a stab at this one. The deputy is right about what he says about knockdown power in that the force is equal on the bullet on both ends; however, on the shooter's side the force of the bullet is opposed by the weight of the gun. Also, the bearing surface area of the stock distributes the force remaining after the opposition of the weight of the gun onto the shoulder and forehand gripping the stock if shot standing. This is why shooting standing had some what less recoil than shooting from the bench.

Now I believe in knockdown power, but because no two animals are the same or shot the same, too many variables like the naimals state of alertness/stress...Let me site two examples of Moose the same size and shot with the same rifle and bullet at the same distances with the same aiming point:

#1. Broadside shot @ 150 yards with a 338 Win mag 250 gr Seirra boatail. The moose was knocked over and his feet actually came up in the air and then fell down. He was dead when he hit the ground. After skinning it I found about 3/4 of the bullet in several fragments embeded on the off side. I wonder how much energy it takes to do this to a 250 gr Sierra? It would be some, but all the energy was contained in the moose about 3500 foot pounds.

#2. I shot the moose and he kept walking about 3 ro 4 steps and then sat down!? I fired again at the same spot. He just sat there in the same spot 150 yards away with his head up!!!I nearly paniced. then I caught myself and thought that a moose wouldn't just sit there after being shot at twice. So I reloaded and waited a minutes or so with out him moving. When I got to him there was a piece of wood I couldn't see that was under his head holding it up. My two shots were about 1/2" apart and neither had hit a rib. Both bullets had passed through the animal cleanly and there was very nearly zero meat damage.

In both cases the heart was missed, but was lying loose unconected by veins or arteries in the chest cavity. It seems the first animal absorbed more erngy from the first bullet, all of it. The second since both passed through only a % of each bullet's energy. The second one kept walking after being hit like he was on a Sunday stroll. While the first was knocked over so hard his feet came up into the air. As I stated I believe in knockdown power, but I think these examples shows it can be very hard to accurately define.
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Unread 07-21-2005, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 49
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

I have to join this discussion! Several years ago I took my nephew hunting and we watched a nice buck at a pond drinking water. When the buck stepped up where a clear shot could be taken, my nephew made a bad shot but the buck dropped dead on the spot. He had hit the buck in the lower abdomin with a 7 mag. The velocity of the bullet created severe shock in the water the buck had drank and it killed him instantly. I also want to remind readers that P.O. Ackley did much testing of high velocity bullets and thier killing power and determined that shock from high velocity was the most reliable method for a quick kill. Also, during the Korean war, there was a study made comparing the killing power of the 9mm to the 45acp. When the waves of Chinese soldiers came in and soldiers had to resort to thier pistols as a last resort, it was determined that the 9mm actually was more effective in one shot stops due to its velocity and the fact that the smaller diameter bullets penetrated the winter clothing better. This is a very good topic and a great discussion.
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