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# Sorry if this Starts another Argument

#8
07-15-2005, 11:41 AM
 Gold Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: North Dakota Posts: 648
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

A bullet kills by shock not by blood loss. Yes FTLBS means something take a 308 Win and a 300 Mag and shoot a animal with the same bullet at the same range and you will see a difference between the two. Here is a simple test to prove a lot of energy is transfered when a bullet strikes. Take two 1 gallon milk jugs and fill them with water. Put them at 50 yards. Now shoot one with a 22LR and shoot the other with a 223 or 22-250 and then look at the results. If you also look at the difference between a bullet wound and a wound from a broadhead you can really tell energy from a bullet is transfered and a lot of it. With a bullet wound there is blood shot meat and with a broadhead there is nothing the meat stays the same color as the rest of the animal there is just a hole going through it. Now about his statement about if a gun had that much energy it would knock the person over shooting it. Now I really think he was stretching things. When a bullet is fired it's energy is from the velocity it is going not the recoil the rifle produces.
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#9
07-15-2005, 11:43 AM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central PA Posts: 1,310
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

Skinny -- fluids dont compress...but that is what causes little critters to explode

i bet if you hit a deer lengthwise with a 20MM V-max it would explode too [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

In my mind, the fluids act as a force multiplier

JB
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#10
07-15-2005, 12:03 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NC, oceanfront Posts: 2,967
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

I think it's a combination shock and subsequent blood loss. I seen a philippine student demonstrator shot point blank in the chest accidently by a cop with 12ga 00Buck. Blew his lungs out of his back. He fell towards the shot, hitting the muzzle before the ground. Several seconds later he passed out. By then there was a trail of his blood 10ft down the street.
I've hit many woodchucks with 40Vmax and watched them tip over without a twitch. But they weren't dead yet. Just shocked into instant unconciousness. They bled to death before waking is all.
Enough shock will knock out the target. Leaving only the dying.
#11
07-15-2005, 12:04 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: west of Little Rock ,Ark. Posts: 1,271
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

Hey , can I play too [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
As I read the post it seems to me that the thing he did'nt believe in was " knockdown power of bullets". One personal ekperience seems to say otherwise , I shot a deer (about 135 lbs ) with a 54 cal. using 500 gr. pure lead hphb bullet, 100grs. blackpowder(kicks so hard it bruises my cheek with one shot.Distance was about 60 yds . th

The bullet hit center of the spine and the guys said( too much smoke for me to see ) it rotated her like she was on a rotiserrie.
The beer can reference was a good point .How heavy the bullet and how heavy the target? these must be answered to determine if there is " knockdown power" or not.
I expect that a 5or 600 gr. bullet that will expand greatly making impact on a dense portion of the target would move the target quite a lot (knock it down )
#12
07-15-2005, 12:05 PM
 SPONSOR Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: El Reno, OK Posts: 1,503
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

I thank you all for your opinions and information. My real point of this post is to dispute the presence of knockdown/stopping power. THe deputy does not believe in it and I put all my faith in trusting it. What I am hoping is that you all will either provide me with the information to prove my case to him or prove me wrong.

Thankyou
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#13
07-15-2005, 12:08 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central PA Posts: 1,310
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

[ QUOTE ]
I thank you all for your opinions and information. My real point of this post is to dispute the presence of knockdown/stopping power. THe deputy does not believe in it and I put all my faith in trusting it. What I am hoping is that you all will either provide me with the information to prove my case to him or prove me wrong.

Thankyou

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to watch the Mythbusters Episode where they shoot a dead pig to try to knock it backwards -- was NO Hollyweird reaction when shot.

JB
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Check it Out!!--&gt; Shoot the Smack The Smiley Match...and help AmericanSnipers.org
#14
07-15-2005, 12:10 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,515
Re: Sorry if this Starts another Argument

[ QUOTE ]
Now about his statement about if a gun had that much energy it would knock the person over shooting it. Now I really think he was stretching things. When a bullet is fired it's energy is from the velocity it is going not the recoil the rifle produces.

[/ QUOTE ]

The laws of equal and opposite are still true in this example. If the bullet had the energy to throw a deer backwards it would also have the energy to throw the shooter backwards. The reason a bullet does so much forward damage is because of the disparity of momentum and surface area. the two sides of the equasion are a 150 grain bullet not in motion and a 35,000 grain gun not in motion. Then there is the bullets frontal surface that is about 1 "1/4 inch square" and the recoil pad that is about 50 "1/4 inch squares". This is why the bullet flies so far so fast and penetrates the target and the rifle kicks but does not penetrate the shooters shoulder.

I disagree with what you said about shock killing an animal and not blood loss (it has to be a combination of both) but I don't think the cop was talking about that. The reference was to "knock down power" and the shooter experiencing the same energy.
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