My apology if I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that since monometals were less dense they would be loner and therefore not fit the mag. In any case, I dont think there are many if any factory actions that will allow handloaded high BC bullets to be loaded to the lands and fit the factory mag. None do in any of my rifles.
As for the previous marketing of GS bullets, I am ignorant. I have only come to know about them in this last year. So I will leave that where it is.
And you're right, what I "want" to hear is that the GS bullet is the magic bullet. Or any bullet for that matter. I've chatted with another member in here who is, as I stated earlier, starting tio test the 177's. From his description they sound like they do not have a large hollow point. His descriptuion is that they looked like missles. He has also used the 173's. I think we will have a good idea fairly soon how they perform. If they fall short. Oh well... time to move on to the next magic bullet
Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 06-29-2009 at 01:29 AM.
As mentioned above, yes. While the 338's get all the good press, I'd venture to guess of the members here who use some sort of 30 Cal magnum as their primary LRHR probably outnumber all the rest put together. I believe the single biggest reason many here migrated to 338 from 30 cal was very simply due to the 300 SMK being a much better bullet than the 240 SMK. Not that the 240 is bad, but the 300 is in a different class BC-wise.
When Wildcat Bullets was up and running, plenty here put faster twists on other caliber rifles, 30 cal just hadn't really happened yet. If you build it, they will come.
I went to the "Your Next Rifle Will Be In Which Cartridge" thread and added up the numbers. Not sure how scientific this is but here they are...
So the 308 and the 338 are pretty close acording to those numbers, but I would have agreed with you off the top of my head. I think for all around hunting, the 308 cartridges are probably the overwhelming majority, but for LR, it seems the big 338's have gained a lot of popularity and the .284 is right up there too.
I have been looking at this bullet with great interest. Even though I am no longer using the 300's I would be very interested in this bullet from my 308's. Think about it. A 177 grain bullet with such a high BC that would help it keep its velocity afloat a bit longer AND expand between 1500-1600 FPS. This would be a dream come true for a die hard 308 fan like me. I am already getting 2850 out of 178 AMAX's with the right barrel AND the right powder. I cant imagine how much farther I could ethically take my 308's with a bullet weighing near 180 grains that will deliver good downrange velocity AND reliable expansion. No deer, sheep or antelope would be safe inside 1/2 mile+
I for one am EXTREEMLY interested in 30 cal mono metal bullets PROVIDED that they offer good accuracy, BC's AND low velocity expansion. If it can be done, I would be a supporter for sure. I would even be willing to cash in my 11 twist barrels for 9's or 10's to make them work properly.
If you check out the GS site for the 177, you will see that a 10 twist is border line, and for shooting game closer than 500 yds, a 9 twist is recomended. I dont know how MV and barrel length will affect stability, but I assume the faster and longer the better. So if I was shooting it out of a .308 I think I would go with at least a 9 twist or maybe an 8 or 8 1/2. Let's hope the adverised BC is close, and from what I've heard, the accuracy IS good.
I received a few e-mails saying essentially the same thing you just did, so hopefully this single response will lay out the issues well enough for discussion.
Producing a ZA30/6.0-H is a relatively easy thing to do from my standpoint.
The plus side of this idea is that a 30 caliber is much less expensive than a 338, 375, or certainly a 50. The Match/Hunt combination is still necessary to make the proposition economically viable however.
The down-side is the following;
- In order to maximize performance in a magazine equipped platform, I would need ~1.11", beyond case length, to accomodate the nose.
- The selected case would have to be readily available from Lapua and/or Norma.
- The barrel would have to have a minimum 8" twist, and be compatible with existing jacketed projectiles (ie. , the jackets need to reliably stay on the core).
- I would need a group of qualified shooters willing to perform beta testing at their own expense, and be placed under an NDA.
If these conditions can be met, I will seriously consider the project.
If you can provide reasonable assurance of a 190-200 gr bullet with a BC of ~ 1, and good reliable expnsion... I think folks will be stumbling over themselves to do some beta testing for you. I know if had the resources to do a build I would be saying where do I sign the NDA? ...and then procede with a 300 Dakota build.
If I gave you a reasonable assurance of a G1 BC of ~1, you could be certain to be disappointed .
Realistically, the BC range would fall in the mid-to-upper .6's (but do not quote me on this because I do not rely on guesses). Now let me move up to a non-magazine compatible 6.5, or 7.0 caliber projectile, and I can guess a little higher (but still, don't hold me to a hard number ... same reason).
In all seriousness, I will commit to you that a ZA bullet out-classes anything of equivalent weight, in a given caliber.The rub is a higher twist-rate requirement.
Low-velocity expansion I have no problem giving you an assurance on.
My reason reason for a Lapua, or Norma case preference (not necessity), is that I would prefer the end user not have to rework the brass to match grade, and like the idea of re-supply being well developed. It has an indirect bearing on the success of the projectile.
How well do your sabots release, and transfer spin?
My reason for a Lapua, or Norma case preference (not necessity), is that I would prefer the end user not have to rework the brass to match grade, and like the idea of re-supply being well developed. It has an indirect bearing on the success of the projectile.
I wouldn't leave RWS brass off the list of top-tier brass. RWS and Lapua will be tougher in the case head than all the rest that I'm aware of. Norma will have good dimensional consistency but have a much softer case head, meaning the primer pocket will swell and loosen up under peak pressure loads much quicker than the RWS and Lapua brass.