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SO called experts talking about LONG RANGE SHOOTING....

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Unread 09-24-2007, 07:48 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,598
I use and Like the Nightforce Exball Program and believe that it is as good as any......

Nightforce Optics
range it,check the wind, dial in correction, aim and only one shot
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Unread 09-24-2007, 09:10 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pennsyltucky
Posts: 2,630
i don't know what's so hard about shooting at 3800. i regularly shoot groundhogs past 5k with my 22lr....then i wake up, SSS, and off to work i go.

come on Kirby, we need a name. this guy doesn't deserve our business.
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Unread 09-24-2007, 10:59 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 276
Yeah Kirb

Might as well tell us I mean after all it's in a magazine right! It's public knowledge!

Who is it????


"Why, they couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...".

Romans 8:28
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Unread 09-25-2007, 11:06 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Spokane Wa
Posts: 153
Hey guys why dont we get this guy to put on a shooting clinic? Then when we show up with our 338AM and 375AM's we can shoot for money ))

" I do not leave a long range shot opportunity to "adequate". In my opinion, as stated before, overkill is a mythical place, no such thing if you can pilot the power with precision." Kirby Allen
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Unread 09-25-2007, 11:22 AM
Official LRH Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,841
One thing I want to make certain is that when novice shooters read this post that they come away with the impression that shooting at long range is so hard and involved that it is not worth even trying. That is certainly not my intent and could not be farther from the truth.

I recently took a customer out to the range to test a new rifle I built for him. It was a nice 300 Wby built on a Lawton receiver, A-5 stock, heavy Lilja barrel. A pleasure of a rifle to shoot. We set the gong up at 1200 yards and this customer to be honest seemed a bit intimidated by the range as he had never even attempted a shot at this range before. Within a couple shots he was ringing the gong pretty regularly in a decent cross wind with his rifle.

I had also packed up my lightweight 338 AM and took it along for him to try out. We set her up and got him on the correct hold reference point for this range. Again, I think he was a bit imtimidated by the size of the 338 AM round and the relatively light rifle as under 18 lbs. His first shot landed about 20 yards short of the target.

I handed him another round and said, "now you know she will not kill you so just shoot it like any other rifle." A short while after the trigger broke on the second shot the lead smear appeared about 3" to the right and about 4" high of center on the gong. He was all smiles.

I handed him another round and this shot landed about 3" directly above the first shot. Only problem is that the shot impacted the gong just under the chain support and because the gong could not swing freely with this impact location, it ripped the gong right off the chain. Again he was all smiles.

Point being, In relatively good conditions, I could take anyone that has basic shooting skills and get them consistantly hitting a 2 moa gong at 1000 yards or more in just a matter of shots.

We are greatly dependant on equipment in this sport and it takes a fair amount of knowledge to make the equipment and also get it all adjusted, tweaked and tuned so that everything is working in unison such as rangefinder, drop chart and actual rifle trajectory. Then comes the hard part.

Judging field conditions. Most of this can be obtained accurately with a quality handheld instrument such as the Krestel line of intruments. Judging wind direction and speed over extreme range, thats a bit harder and in fact in some instances can be flat out impossible. For instance if your shooting from one ridge to another and there is no mirage or particles in the air to read, your basically in the dark as far as wind at mid range.

When it comes to wind judgement I am as novice as anyone and fully admit it. I can read horizontal wind pretty well, when it comes to up and down drafts, I am learning everyone I experience them to be honest!!!

Again, my point is this, to shoot at extreme range, you need specialized equipment and the knowledge to use it correctly. That said, it is not rocket science and anyone with a desire to invest in good equipment and practice can learn to be a very compitent long range shot.

When dealing with ranges past 2000 yards however, I just get tired of some writters saying its so easy because lets be honest, there are only a handful of rounds out there that can even provide consistant performance out to that range and out past 3000 yards, lets just say I am shooting about the most extreme performance round out there right now(RIGHT NOW!!) and much past 3000 yards your still pretty much tapped out.

3600 and 3800 yards, in my opinion flat ass luck and nothing else to even come close to a small target repeatedly.

as far as the author of the article, For professional reasons I do not want to mention his name but I will say he is very noticable in the world of the Varmint Hunter Association and their magazine. Again, he builds great rifles, that is not in question in anyway. Its his attitude or protrail of extreme range shooting that I personally feel may cause alot of frustration to new shooters and may result in them leaving the sport.

Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page:
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Unread 09-25-2007, 12:45 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19
Try to look on the bright side

Which can be hard to do...BUT. The average masses read such an article and conclude that an hour at the range, a box of surplus ammo, and a few clicks of the scope will have them all ready to take down Trophy Bulls at 2000-3000 yards......The bright side? I doubt anyone needs fear that they will wound animals........they will run out of ammo or melt the barrel before they hit within twenty yards of them.
If I can see it, I can hit it.....and I can see pretty well.
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Unread 09-25-2007, 01:37 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 366
I am very new at this sport. I recently moved from Mi to Co, here I have been able to shoot at ranges that I wasn't able to do at home. From participating on this board I have learned a ton of information, I also have learned that guys like Kirby and Shawn although I have never met them are damned straight shooters and I just don't mean with a rifle. I went to a shooting range last Sat and my buddy was messing around with his 45-70 trying to hit steel targets at 200 yds. Well it jst seemd natural to try and hit the 500 yd target. I did! WOW. Would I have tried a shot at an animal at that range, even with my 300 win ? No, but I feel I hit it due to the information I have gathered here. Since I have been visiting this site, my shooting has improved, and I haven't watched any shooting TV shows or bought any junk gun mags. Thanks all for teaching as FNG's and sharing your wisdom. Kirby and Shawn you guys are to shooting as Tiger Woods is to golf. Thanks again and excuse me for being so long winded.
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