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Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics


SO called experts talking about LONG RANGE SHOOTING....

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Unread 09-24-2007, 12:25 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alberta
Posts: 868
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post

Best way to figure your max range is to get a quality ballistic program. One that will let you account for altitude, Bar pressure, humidy, temp and wind speed.

Then you need an accurate muzzle velocity average and a reliable BC value for your bullet. Plug in all your numbers and then look where your bullet velocity drops below 1100 fps. This is not exactly the speed of sound. This is a value that changes with environmental conditions, espeically altitude but 1100 fps is a decent place to start.

Find out where this is, for example it is 1650 yards. Set up a target at 1600 yards and see if you can get good consistant groups representitive of what the rifle will do. Anything under 1 moa at this range is what I would call predictable bullet impacts.

If you get consistant accuracy, step back 200 yards and check. If your bullet drops out of super sonic velocity in this window, you will see a noticable drop in bullet impact predictablility. Many times, you will have total accuracy lose.

As far as this being, I fully agree, but it never hurts to know the max range of your particular rifle and in the case of my business, I want to push those limits and extend the predictable range of our rifles as far as possible. I would never shoot at big game at 3000 yards, hell not even 2000 yards but my job is to push and move the limits. As of right now, 3800 yards is not practical and we are working with some of the most extreme ballistic performance on the planet concerning shoulder fired conventional rifles.

To say this is possible to the average shooter is simply a practice that eventually will cause the new shooter to get discouraged and possibly give up on the sport.

That is my only point. I agree totally, being able to put that first shot on the money is the determining factor as to what max range you are capable of shooting to. That is concerning hunting, I am talking mostly about shear max performance in this instance.

Kirby Allen(50)
Thanks for the reply Kirby!
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Unread 09-24-2007, 01:22 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ogden, Utah
Posts: 249
I too am sick of people that know nothing about the making long shots telling others how easy it is. I am no shooter like has been mentioned. In fact my longest shots on targets are only 1250 and to me that is a long ways out there. All the hype has some people that really have no buisness shooting long distance trying shots on game that they have not even attempted on targets because they hear that it is really easy to do. There is more to it than buying a gun and a scope with the target turrets and going out and clicking the scope up and being dead on. Like was mentioned there could be cross winds, are the winds full faced or only partial. Are you shooting at an angle up hill or down hill? What are the current weather conditions, humidity, baro readings, altitude, temp. Alot more than people realize goes into making a true long distance shot count the first time and not having to take 5-6 shots, wounding the animal, before you make the kill shot.
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Unread 09-24-2007, 01:28 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Western MI
Posts: 718

Tough fight for sure and you will end up being the bad guy.
The bigger problem is the wana be LRH kind of person that puts a long range scope on his deer rifle and prints off a drop chart and goes hunting. As you know, verifying the chart with actual data is paramont. There are likely to be a few that ignore this and go out and wound a few animals.
Thats where the bad image comes into play.

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Unread 09-24-2007, 01:31 PM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dixie
Posts: 75
Yes being able to judge distance and figure wind then dial in the appropriate MOA takes lots of practice under different conditions. This only comes from practice and lots of it with a good teacher and spotter. You can do it on your own but it helps greatly to have someone who has been there and done that to mentor you along. Preferable someone who knows what they are doing. I am not a good judge of distance so I rely on my range finder. But still you need to know how to judge distance anyway because you never know when the rangefinder will crap out on you, or you forget it, or it could get damaged and not work.

I have Quickload and Quicktarget but have not mastered these for my best use of their capabilities. I already see how they can really help you in knowing how your round will fly.
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Unread 09-24-2007, 02:19 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FREE RUN, MS
Posts: 774
Ill be happy with a whitetail at a K.......A few of us southerners still sit and scratch our heads at our visability even at 500 yards.....we get some serios mirage and haze down here! Ive seen the newbies shoot over a box at a legit size 500 yrd ram and never touch it...and this is off a competition type concrete bench at a known range....

Folks like you and GG would blow our minds down here, I understand where your coming from when people make something that hard sound so easy.
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Unread 09-24-2007, 03:25 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MN
Posts: 1,219
Originally Posted by Slopeshunter View Post
Sorry to take your thread a bit off topic Kirby, but could someone tell me how does one determine at what range different calibres go subsonic? And does this range basically tell you the limits of that calibre?

Go to JBM clac or similar tradjectroy calculator and it will tell you the velocity at various ranges and probably the speed of sound at your altitude, 1200 ft is about 1111 fps.
I used to re-load but now I "hand-load".
-- Well, at least I try --
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Unread 09-24-2007, 07:24 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,782
Originally Posted by Slopeshunter View Post
Sorry to take your thread a bit off topic Kirby, but could someone tell me how does one determine at what range different calibres go subsonic? And does this range basically tell you the limits of that calibre?

What you have been told is right on the money, I just would like to show you how my program shows me the velocity at which it goes from supersonic (above the speed of sound) to subsonic (below the speed of sound). Remembering that depending of the altitud and the conditions the speed of sound Number changes. On the left, as you run the external ballistic program with all the needed data, in the velocity section gives you in black the supersonic and in red the subsonic. On the right hand side, in the analyzer section clicking on the tab for obtaing BC from velocities, there it also would tell you the Speed of sound from the data entered. You may find the speed of sound at any elevation for any set of atmospheric conditions. Good Luck!


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