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Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics

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SO called experts talking about LONG RANGE SHOOTING....

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  #8  
Unread 09-24-2007, 09:39 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Carlock View Post
all of them go to hell in a hand basket at a certain range and it is shortly after going subsonic.
Sorry to take your thread a bit off topic Kirby, but could someone tell me how does one determine at what range different calibres go subsonic? And does this range basically tell you the limits of that calibre?

Cheers.
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  #9  
Unread 09-24-2007, 10:46 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NC, oceanfront
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This is a HUNTING forum, and not ShootingDelusions.Com, right?
Anything beyond what you can can hit with a single cold bore shot, is static.

Trained monkey shooting at set ranges (after sighting on rocks or 4x8 plywood), offers little application in hunting. Or anything else for that matter... Hell, even the military tries to make shots count.

If you set a paint can & walk out there any random/non-set distance(with all shooting equipment), turn around, range it, dial it, and shoot once..
Would you hit your mark? What would be your max successful range?

I'm serious. I'm not talkin some distance you walked shots into last week(with 8 shots). I'm talking your real accuracy.
Gunwriters have always been clueless, and worse, many are not ethical.
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  #10  
Unread 09-24-2007, 11:15 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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JD338,

I thiought about this but the guy is a VERY popular gunsmith around the shooting clan that subscribes to this mag, which is great and he is obviously a good smith but his portrail of extreme range shooting is very unrealistic.

Telling that to a group of people that think this individual is a long range god would simply be a waste of time to be honest.

Just frustating when a customer comes in and says, I want you to build me a rifle so I can shoot out to 3000 yards because I have read articles from so and so and he says I can do it.

THen after a couple hours of intense mental retraining, maybe the guy has a bit more realistic view of how things really work.

Many have said, just take him out and let him shot at these ranges, that would work great if the guy had an open mind to seeing what it is really like, most often, because he already KNOWS its easy and possible, the only thing he would take and pass on from the shooting session is that Kirby Allen can not make a rifle that will shoot minute of P. dog at 2 miles!!!!

I tend to pick the fights that are winable but it still bothers me.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #11  
Unread 09-24-2007, 11:18 AM
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Shawn,

I was hoping you were sniffing around and would offer your comments.

I have not been able to test the faster twist thing. I agree, its something that may add a bit more range but I also agree that at a certain point accuracy will be degreaded no matter what you do until we figure out how to get self propelled and self stabilizing projectiles in these rifles!!!

Thanks for your experience with the 308.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #12  
Unread 09-24-2007, 11:26 AM
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Slopeshunter,

Best way to figure your max range is to get a quality ballistic program. One that will let you account for altitude, Bar pressure, humidy, temp and wind speed.

Then you need an accurate muzzle velocity average and a reliable BC value for your bullet. Plug in all your numbers and then look where your bullet velocity drops below 1100 fps. This is not exactly the speed of sound. This is a value that changes with environmental conditions, espeically altitude but 1100 fps is a decent place to start.

Find out where this is, for example it is 1650 yards. Set up a target at 1600 yards and see if you can get good consistant groups representitive of what the rifle will do. Anything under 1 moa at this range is what I would call predictable bullet impacts.

If you get consistant accuracy, step back 200 yards and check. If your bullet drops out of super sonic velocity in this window, you will see a noticable drop in bullet impact predictablility. Many times, you will have total accuracy lose.

As far as this being Longrangehunting.com, I fully agree, but it never hurts to know the max range of your particular rifle and in the case of my business, I want to push those limits and extend the predictable range of our rifles as far as possible. I would never shoot at big game at 3000 yards, hell not even 2000 yards but my job is to push and move the limits. As of right now, 3800 yards is not practical and we are working with some of the most extreme ballistic performance on the planet concerning shoulder fired conventional rifles.

To say this is possible to the average shooter is simply a practice that eventually will cause the new shooter to get discouraged and possibly give up on the sport.

That is my only point. I agree totally, being able to put that first shot on the money is the determining factor as to what max range you are capable of shooting to. That is concerning hunting, I am talking mostly about shear max performance in this instance.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #13  
Unread 09-24-2007, 12:10 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dixie
Posts: 75
I shoot 300 to 500 yards on regular basis, for me being consistant at those distances is humbling enough. When I do go out to a 1000 yard it is even more humbling. Shooting a .308 with a 1 in 10" and pushing 190 grain SMK's it is still a challenge. I would like to shoot at 1200 to 1500 sometime just to see what it is like. But I cannot imagine shooting at 2000+ that is just hard to comprehend. Maybe someday just not now.
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  #14  
Unread 09-24-2007, 12:17 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,845
Kirby---you and I as well as most who read this board know that wind judging skills are PARAMOUNT in being successful at long range period. For those who have not fired thousands upon thousands of rounds at 1k and beyond and more importantly learned from the experience it is way to easy to become disillusioned at just looking at ballistic tables. If it was easy anyone could do it right and let me tell those who are new to shooting long range it is not. As my Mentor always says “the wind is your friend” and “winning isn’t everything but losing sucks”!!! Losing in the field by missing or poorly placing a shot or in competition is not fun and when it is the aforementioned of the 2 may send animal to a slow horrible death.

Point is a shooter has to know his or her limitations with their respective equipment and skills.
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