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shawns video is confusing me but i would recommend

 
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2008, 11:50 PM
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Geargrinder,
I said I wasn't using it anymore, I've been learning and running the more powerful one LoadBase. I did never say I did not like it. I do like it and very much. If Loabase ever gets too expensive for me , then Exbal is the one. Runs very fast even in slower processors and simple enough to do the job after it has been tweaked to match bullet impacts at different ranges which you have to do with just about any program. I just believe from experience that LoadBase gets me closer and has so many features that I want like correcting muzzle velocities in the field when shooting through a chronograph without having to take my lap top.
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HEBREWS 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!!

---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2008, 11:52 PM
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tjon,

These weather stations/ watches/whatever make altitude predictions (and that's all they are) based on the barometric pressure. If you really want to know your altitude, use a GPS with good reception to many satellites located in very different parts of the sky, set it down and give it time to really lock in this nubmer--this is probalbly the most accurate and even that will change a bit on the unit. And even if you can pinpoint your location on a topo, you still have to try to estimate your altitude between lines on the map.

So, as barometric pressure changes with you moving up or down in elevation or a hi or lo pressure weather system moves in when you haven't changed elevation at all, your weather station will tell you that your elevation has changed--a very poor way to get accurate elevation. If you can pinpoint your elevation with GPS or topo and enter this in your weather station, your altitude reading will still change even if you don't change elevation as lo and hi pressure weather systems move in and out of the region. So, altitude by itself in regards to trajectory calculation, in my understanding, means next to nothing. It is station barometric pressure that is the important factor, not altitude, to determine bullet path.

Now there may be some ethereal calculations that can show that the bullet will change it's flight due to changes in gravitational pull or the coriolis effect or the like if you change elevation drastically, I don't know. But I think that for meat and potatoes LRH, these issue are probably not important. I'm sure there are others on LRH.com that are much more versed in all of this that can set us straight, if that is not the case.

Good luck.
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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2008, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmden View Post
Eaglet,

I'm confused. Try doing what you are saying either in 'field conditions' or in 'save sight in information' and when you enter the new altitude and hit update, you will see the program check the 'calculate standard pressure' and see the pressure value changed to a predicted pressure just as the screen changes.

The program then makes a predicted trajectory based on the predicted standard pressure for that altitude, which could be somewhat off depending on if there is a hi or lo pressure system in the area. You need to measure station pressure at your new location. That's what's important, not altitude.

You can put whatever altitude you want in 'field conditions' and the predicted trajectory will not change if 'calculate standard pressure' stays unchecked because the pressure remains constant this way unless you manually change it. However, everytime you go to change altitude, you have to watch very closely as the program will check 'calculate standard pressure' and enter in that calculated pressure (just a number from a table, perhaps quite a bit differnent than actual station pressure) just as you hit update.

Are we communicating, or am I just muddying the waters?
jmden,
You are right in that if you enter the BP and enter zero for elevation or enter the on-site elevation it will make no difference. I was explaining why it was important to enter the elevation and I’ll try to explain my self better:

If in "Save sight-in Conditions" you have the top box checked on,


What ever info. you entered in the "Field Conditions" screen will appear here again, telling the program that whatever is in the field conditons you want to use as your "Sight-in Conditions. At this point when you enter your "Field conditions" info will be also used as your "Sight-in conditions" and as long as the on-site BP is used, it does not matter what elevation you enter in, 0, 500 etc, the results will be the same making you right in what you're saying. So, If you leave the boxed checked as in the photo above you can use exbal that way, Altitude=0 and just change your BP as it changes; and that's the end of it.

If you want to use Exbal's ability to Use your "Sight-in Conditions" at let's say 2000 ft of altitude, and then without rezeroing at your hunting conditions let's say 9000 ft altitude then you have to take a different approach.

So that this time I explain my self let's do it from the beginning:

First we have our main screen,

then we click in order 1, 2, and 3.

1 is Bullet Data. Click on it and...


2 is Field Conditions. Click on it and...

Enter all info as shown in photo including altitude for the BP.

3 is Target Engagement. Click on it and...

Enter all the info. as needed

Now that all of the info for the Sight in spot has been entered,
you want to save it so that Exbal knows at what conditions including
altitude you sighted your weapon. WILL CONTINUE...
__________________
-----------------------------

-----------------------------
HEBREWS 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!!

---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!

Last edited by Eaglet; 10-11-2008 at 06:44 PM.
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  #11  
Old 05-16-2008, 02:02 AM
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CONTINUING...

Let's click on "Program Options"...


Now let's click on "Save Sight-in Conditions"...

As you remember, the box on top was checked on (for using field conditions) this told the program to copy those conditions exactly to be saved. Now you uncheck the box as in the picture to make sure that for as long as you don't have to re-sight in you want the program to use that info. You don't mess with this anymore. Leave it alone. Now you're ready to go hunting. and when you do you change whatever you have to in steps 1, 2, and 3. Always enter the Altitude for whatever BP and your calculations will be right. If at this point you enter elevation or altitude = 0 you just messed up. You have to keep entering the altitude because Exbal will be doing calculations based on your sight-in conditions and your present conditions. With LoadBase from Patagonia Ballistic you have to do the same thing. You just go about it differently.

The Altitude box is not there because the programmer is an idiot, trust me on this, he knows what he's doing.


If you insist on entering zero for Altitude, just remember to do as explained at the beginning of all my bla bla bla. Just don't forget that when you go hunting at 9000 ft of Altitude you have to sight-in again and not at 100 yards because in spite of the Elevation change at 100 yards there is not enough change to be noticed, but you will have a great miss at 1000 yards. Just guessing!

In any event, that's my understanding of how the program works and if I'm wrong... :o
__________________
-----------------------------

-----------------------------
HEBREWS 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!!

---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-16-2008, 03:28 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,605
Eaglet,

OK, now I see what you are saying. Thanks.

Are you still using that itty, bitty boolit? I thought we'd convinced you to go to the 'grande' 240 on top of 103+ grains of US869! I'm right at 3K out of a 26" 10 twist with 104.5 gr and 4-6 loadings before primers are loose--some cases worse than others. Quite a wallop without a brake and 10lb rifle, but quite used to it now.

It appears you're using a bc of .748 for the 'itty bitty' bullet. That's working for you, huh? I think Exbal says .631 for that bullet and .711 for the 240. So far I've found the Exbal predictions to be spot on using it's own bc numbers for the 240, but it would appear that that is not he case for the 210?
__________________
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
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  #13  
Old 05-16-2008, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,782
jmden,

I think you did convince me , the thing is I had alredy too many of the itty bitty bullets...LOL I like that! Also, them 240's are expensive...

When I use 0.631, at 700 yards I'm hitting high so by tweaking the program come to find out that by using 0.748 :confused: it matches real life out to 1130 yrds... (longest tested).

With your load, what kind of muzzle velocity you get? That has to be a thumping on your shoulder.
__________________
-----------------------------

-----------------------------
HEBREWS 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!!

---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-16-2008, 07:49 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,605
3K muzzle velocity with loaded rounds at mid 30's to mid 40's temps. I would not shoot this load at over about 55-60 deg. It's not going to blow up or anything, it's just going to lower the life of the brass quickly.

I ran some numbers in Exbal regarind our above posts and for my load at 1000 yds with about a 7000 ft elevation difference (2950 to 10000) it showed 1/4 MOA difference. So, according to Exbal, you should enter your altitude along with station pressure. Although, as from above, it seems to take a significant elevation change for it to be different by even 1/4 MOA. 1/4 MOA at 1000 yards, however, is one more approx. 2.5 inches I'd rather be accounting for than not! Thanks! It seems like I have to 'relearn' that program every few months.

tjon, make sure and take this into account. I'm sorry if I misled you.
__________________
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl

Last edited by jmden; 05-16-2008 at 10:20 PM.
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