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Run out

 
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  #1  
Old 02-02-2003, 08:00 PM
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Location: McNeal, AZ
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Run out

How much bullet run out is too much?

I try to keep mine as low as possible. I separate those out that I can get down to .002" or under to be used for hunting, or when I want to record a group. But I end up with quite a few higher.

How high is too high? What do you do with those that don't meet your criteria? I just pulled five bullets that were out by .005"-.006" Then reseated them in the same cases. I got two of them down to .003" the others went to .004-.005"

Should I have dumped the powder and resized the brass again? Any suggestions?
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Old 02-02-2003, 10:48 PM
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Re: Run out

Tim, If I had to guess, I'd say your using RCBS dies. They are notorious for being out of round. Most of the guys at the 1000yd range avoid them like the plague.

Assuming that is wrong, you may have a chamber that is "Banana'ed" It kinda had a curl to it. All of your fired rounds will pick up the chamber shape to some extent. Some might be the same orientation (rotation)as last firing and now their worse, others might be opposite that and now they get better.

Spend some time checking the brass before you resize, and after. Move your indicator to the center of the case body and support the case on the mouth and head at the same time. Now check. Keep in mind, double the result when you check the bullet runout because it's outside the supports instead of inside. Your .006 runout on the bullet means its really .003 off center.

Hmmm, now to really answer the question, is .006 bad. For ME, yes, on my match gun. Would I be afraid to shoot at a woodchuck at 400yds with a 22cal and ammo that measured that, No. Would I be surprised if I missed, (with a good range) Yes.

Most of all, Don't think that it's You. There's nothing you are doing to cause that amount of essentricity. Your gun or your dies are hosing you. For <$25 you can find out if it's the dies. Get a Redding FL die and see if it fixes it.

Be happy with .001 or .002 on the bullets. You'll grow old trying to get much better than that.
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2003, 10:50 AM
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Re: Run out

I'm happy with just .002" or less, and I'll use .003", but what do I do with the ones I can't get down that low? I have been using the RCBS FL dies, but the Redding dies should be here by the end of the week. Will it be able to straighten out those cases that are out?

I don't think the problem is with the chamber, if it were, I'd have problems with all of the brass. Not just 3-4 out of every 20 I load.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:13 PM
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Re: Run out

Troubleshoot your problem by doing run-out on your case neck after sizing then again after bullet seating to isolate which step is causing the runout. I have found runout can be caused by seating dies also...

Nodak
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2003, 03:10 PM
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Re: Run out

The only die set I've never gotten great runnout from is a REDDING. Maybe it's a lemon but ALL DIES WITH EXPANDER SPINDLES NEED TUNING. Think about it--what are the odds the expander ball is sitting in the middle of the die when the screw that holds it is far away. NIL!! Heres what to do to TUNE YOUR DIE.
Turn your spindle out so the decapping pin is a ways outside the die body (Not so far that the expander ball hits the bottom of the case.).
Size 5 brass and check runnout. If not good turn the expander spindle 1/8 turn up into the die. Size 5 more--check runnout if not satisfactory turn the spindle 1/8 more turn.
Keep repeating this until you find the "sweetspot". I guarantee you WILL IMPROVE YOUR RUNNOUT SIGNIFICANTLY. I'm not sure the spindle has to be exactly in the center of the die to make great runnout BUT it has to be close. IF THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE LET ME KNOW AND I'LL EXPLAIN IT BETTER.
If this doesn't work I owe you a beer--if it does you owe me a beer (like either of us will ever collect eh??!!) I have to admit hat I am no longer a rcbs die lover. If I'm cheap I go hornady--if I love the gun/caliber it's foresters. I have been able to get hornady dies to make AS GOOD of ammo as my Foresters by fiddling with the seating stem.
With cheap dies and rem/win factory brass you should be able to get 1/3 of your loaded ammo under .0015".....1/3 under .003" and probably never any over .0045". Sort your ammo into groups and mark the best with a green sharpie marker on the primer--use these for long range matches or hunting. Mark the bad stuff (which will probably shoot right with the best stuff in a huntingrifle) with a black marker and usethese for testing/fouling whatever. And the stuff in the middle becomes backup ammo in case you use of the green marked stuff.
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2003, 03:50 PM
 
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Re: Run out

First determine if it the rifle or dies. Run your fired brass thru your tool and check it-mark the high spot,if any. Then resize, and check it again.There are several ways to tune your dies. The method kraky mentioned is one of them. I use whatever it takes, to include putting a #57 O ring around the die below the lock ring, letting the die "float" in the threads. Another method is to polish(notice I didn't say grind) the expander ball with 600-800 grit wet or dry sandpaper, then flitz metal polish. Then set the decapping stem where you want it, and loosen the lock nut on top of the die, resize a case, but stop with the ram in the upstroke, with the expander ball inside the neck. Tighten the decapping rod --this should center the decapping ball. Use plenty of lube and take your time setting up the die. If its still out after all this--buy new dies. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
I have had Out of round Redding dies, but this is not the norm. I have about switched over completely to Redding.

[ 02-04-2003: Message edited by: Chris Jamison ]
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  #7  
Old 02-04-2003, 05:27 PM
MAX MAX is offline
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Posts: 263
Re: Run out

RCBS? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Redding? [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] Lee Collet Sizer? [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] Tuning? Oh yeah! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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