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Rifle project. 300WBY in Mark V or Vanguard or 300RUM in ??

 
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  #8  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:28 PM
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Re: Rifle project. 300WBY in Mark V or Vanguard or 300RUM in ??

300 rum all the way; or step back to the 300 win. I can run a 225 at over 3K in my 300rum without even getting close to full steam using 50 bmg type powders. The 300 roy will not come close to full pressure with the stick 50 cal powders so you are at a real dis-advantage to getting your peak pressure up long enough to get the BIG pills flying well.
I've got around 600 shots on a lh bdl 300 rum that I bought used and the bore is perfect, so don't feed my the line they die at 600 shots come hell or high water. Half of a barrel's life is how you treat it, and if you beat it the thing will die, but if you use some horse sense you can get even a 7rum to 1K. My 7rum started to go at 600 rounds, but it had some very long shot strings at the bench with others shooting it and it decided to carbon foul badly once. Both took a toal on the pipe. I will be more careful with the next one-- if I go there again.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2012, 12:22 PM
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Re: Rifle project. 300WBY in Mark V or Vanguard or 300RUM in ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty7mmstw View Post
300 rum all the way; or step back to the 300 win. I can run a 225 at over 3K in my 300rum without even getting close to full steam using 50 bmg type powders. The 300 roy will not come close to full pressure with the stick 50 cal powders so you are at a real dis-advantage to getting your peak pressure up long enough to get the BIG pills flying well.
I've got around 600 shots on a lh bdl 300 rum that I bought used and the bore is perfect, so don't feed my the line they die at 600 shots come hell or high water. Half of a barrel's life is how you treat it, and if you beat it the thing will die, but if you use some horse sense you can get even a 7rum to 1K. My 7rum started to go at 600 rounds, but it had some very long shot strings at the bench with others shooting it and it decided to carbon foul badly once. Both took a toal on the pipe. I will be more careful with the next one-- if I go there again.
Just picked up a loading manual, and the hottest load they had with the .300 Ultra and a 220 grain bullet was 2970 fps (the 225 grain would do 3000fps), but also take close to a hundred grains of powder to get there. yet looking in the Hogdon manual it takes about 92 grains of H870 to do the samething in the Weatherby. But lets get back to barrel life and these two rounds.

Look at the case capacitys of these two rounds and we know both are over bore. But one is grossly overbore! Now look at the neck lengths of these two rounds. Tht Ultra has a .306" neck length under ideal conditions. The Weatherby neck is close to .360" long when you add the radius into the neck length. One has a 30 degree shoulder angle with the turbulance point just inside the throat. The other as a shoulder angle that will compute out to around 45 degrees. The turbulance point is roughly in the middle of the neck. That alone will give the Weatherby a far longer barrel life than the Ultra.

Overbore rounds are well know to loose accuracey, and also known to be harder on barrels. Longer necks are also well known to promote longer barrel life. Steeper shoulder angles tend to move the T.P. further back towards the shoulder if the neck is long enough. T.P.'s that are in the throat will always give short barrel life. Nature of the design. Mike Walker probably had little if anything todo with this design. P.O. Ackley did nice nice essays on this subject alone.

Taking a look inside the Hornaday manual, and looking at 220 grain bullets (I know they are round nosed). One sees that the Ultra does 3000 fps, but the Weatherby is actually very similar. Then we drop down to the .308 Norma Mag. The first two rounds were checked out in 26" barrel lengths. The .308 Norma used a 24" barrel length, and they got 2800fps using 73 grains of powder. That's a way better round.
gary
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:09 PM
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Re: Rifle project. 300WBY in Mark V or Vanguard or 300RUM in ??

867, 870, and 872 leave a lot to be desired when using them in big rounds-they are terribly squirrely and don't play as well when loaded down as 5010, 50bmg, and rl50 do. We are at 102 grains of rl50 with 225's in the rum and pushing 3000 fps with mild pressures. I'm working on rl33 with the rum and expect 3100fps since I can actually get to top pressures with it.
The 300 roy is usually given a 26" pipe when put in the reloading manual, but the 300 rum is often given short thrift with a 24" pipe. That's the ONLY reason they even compare in the manuals. The roy is barely faster than the 300 win in the same barrel length. I've laughed at quite a few roys when they shoot them over my oehler-- they sometimes can't even equal a 300win.
I don't hate the roy-- far from it. But people put it up to be this 30 cal panacea and it just doesn't add up cost wise to own one. Buy/build a 300 rum or 300 win and forget about it.
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2012, 02:35 PM
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Re: Rifle project. 300WBY in Mark V or Vanguard or 300RUM in ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty7mmstw View Post
867, 870, and 872 leave a lot to be desired when using them in big rounds-they are terribly squirrely and don't play as well when loaded down as 5010, 50bmg, and rl50 do. We are at 102 grains of rl50 with 225's in the rum and pushing 3000 fps with mild pressures. I'm working on rl33 with the rum and expect 3100fps since I can actually get to top pressures with it.
The 300 roy is usually given a 26" pipe when put in the reloading manual, but the 300 rum is often given short thrift with a 24" pipe. That's the ONLY reason they even compare in the manuals. The roy is barely faster than the 300 win in the same barrel length. I've laughed at quite a few roys when they shoot them over my oehler-- they sometimes can't even equal a 300win.
I don't hate the roy-- far from it. But people put it up to be this 30 cal panacea and it just doesn't add up cost wise to own one. Buy/build a 300 rum or 300 win and forget about it.
all the manuals but one I have list the 300 ultra in a 26" barrel. My Hogdon manual dosn't list the .300 ultra, so I only used the .300 WBY data out of it. The AA manual is 24", and it's still right up there. The ideal powder for the Weatherby is 3100, but it's not being produced anymore. Either way, I'll always take the Weatherby over the Ultra mag as it's just simply better. The winningest 30 caliber in 1000 yard shooting is probably the .300 Ackley, and that's nothing but an 8mm mag necked down to 30 caliber. Still of the ones I listed, I like the .308 Norma best
gary
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2012, 07:09 PM
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Re: Rifle project. 300WBY in Mark V or Vanguard or 300RUM in ??

There is no way in you know where that a 300 windbag is in the same league as a Roy. Thats like saying a 7mm-08 is in the same league as a 7mmSTW. Ummm no.

Anyways, BTTT as I am still hop[ing to hear more opinions on the RIFLES and not so much about the loadings. I think both the Roy and the RUM are superior loadings and would be more than tickled with either. Truth be known, if I could, it would 30-378 all day long but funds simply will not let that happen.
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2012, 03:28 PM
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Re: Rifle project. 300WBY in Mark V or Vanguard or 300RUM in ??

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Originally Posted by Sako7STW View Post
There is no way in you know where that a 300 windbag is in the same league as a Roy. Thats like saying a 7mm-08 is in the same league as a 7mmSTW. Ummm no.

Anyways, BTTT as I am still hop[ing to hear more opinions on the RIFLES and not so much about the loadings. I think both the Roy and the RUM are superior loadings and would be more than tickled with either. Truth be known, if I could, it would 30-378 all day long but funds simply will not let that happen.
I used to have a friend with two different mk 5's in roy. They weren't any faster over the chrono than good 300 winni loads(I've had 3 different 300 win's). The roy may beat the win by 2-5% with heavier pills. Go to the rum if you want to go heavy though as it's better, but it really only does gain enough to care at all with the heavier bullets.
I'm not a vanguard fan, but I hear they are better than garbage nowadays. They weren't worth a crap at all years ago when I had one for a whopping week; I dumped it like a hot potato. I've never had enough time on a mk5 myself to care one way or another.
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