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View Poll Results: Would you buy a Rem 700
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Remington 700 quality

 
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  #162  
Old 11-10-2012, 10:22 AM
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Re: Remington 700 quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXshooter View Post
So I must be missing it. I shoot a lot of guns. Just recreationally but a lot non the less. I'm a Remington fan. So you guys that think they are slipping are we talking about the basic Remington or all of them. I personally shoot only senderos if off the shelf and they all shoot very well. I have a lot of Remington senderos from the very first to the latest. Now I recently shot a new savage and it did not perform out of the box like my senderos. I am currently messing with a couple weatherby mark V's. and they to are not shooting as good. And one has been blue printed by a very good smith. Now that's just my results. Can Remington be making a substandard rifle sure but then again what do you expect any rifle maker to put together for 599 at bass pro. Bottom line is that maybe it is because I haven't really messed with a low end Remington, I am not seeing what is being discussed but then again you get what you pay for right. I still love my Remington's and haven't yet shot a rifle to change my mind, well except for my custom which is on a Remington
I don't think all the models from Remington are an issue. I bought an R15 and an R25 over the last fewyears and they shot and functioned superbly. The are produced for them by Bushmaster and DPMS who are owned by the parent company. I have also purchased a few Model 700 Mil Specs that were well made and shot in the .25-.5 MOA. It's possible that the Sendaros, Mil Specs, and other specialty models are manufactured to different specs compared to the high volume models shipped out into the department store, high volume, distribution network. Remington absolutely does this with their ammo! Why not their rifles? Just a thought.
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  #163  
Old 11-10-2012, 11:13 AM
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Re: Remington 700 quality

A disturbing conversation. Read all the comments.

Remington - Topix
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  #164  
Old 11-10-2012, 12:36 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Posts: 5,542
Re: Remington 700 quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXshooter View Post
So I must be missing it. I shoot a lot of guns. Just recreationally but a lot non the less. I'm a Remington fan. So you guys that think they are slipping are we talking about the basic Remington or all of them. I personally shoot only senderos if off the shelf and they all shoot very well. I have a lot of Remington senderos from the very first to the latest. Now I recently shot a new savage and it did not perform out of the box like my senderos. I am currently messing with a couple weatherby mark V's. and they to are not shooting as good. And one has been blue printed by a very good smith. Now that's just my results. Can Remington be making a substandard rifle sure but then again what do you expect any rifle maker to put together for 599 at bass pro. Bottom line is that maybe it is because I haven't really messed with a low end Remington, I am not seeing what is being discussed but then again you get what you pay for right. I still love my Remington's and haven't yet shot a rifle to change my mind, well except for my custom which is on a Remington

There is definitely a difference between the sendero and the SPS (The cheapest) in overall quality,

But even though the action looks different because of the finish, and the stocks on sendero's
are of better quality they are all the same actions and barrels. The sendero's used to be assembled by the custom shop and were first rate. the SPS's are put together by assembly line workers not
gunsmiths and therefore the quality is not there in the assembly.

I have rebarreled many SPS's and after blueprinting and polishing that black crap of the bolt, they
are very smooth and accuracy.

The only Remington I will not work on and do not recomend is the 770. They are a different
design and not much can be done to them if they dont shoot well.

Keep in mind that most of the custom actions are Remington 700 Clones because they work.

J E CUSTOM
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  #165  
Old 11-10-2012, 02:13 PM
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Re: Remington 700 quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer Oz View Post
G'Day Fella's,

Trickymisfit, sorry I was referring more toward the world in general, than Remington themselves!
But I think Remington could look at how their centerfire rifles are assembled. Their manufacturing, tooling, methods and processes seem to be fine, it's just how (the staff are told to) assemble the parts (that I have seen and heard about), that could be done better!!!
Remington killed the name years back with corporate greed. They felt it was a good thing to operate on a known nameplate come hell or highwater. They never bought any new equipment, and what good equipment they had on hand wasn't maintained like other companys do. This alone was the first strike in their down turn in quality controll. On the otherhand we can take a Savage action and do a check on it, and find out that it's extremely strait and square. Why when both recievers are cut on CNC machines? Simple really. One is the processes are much different. Two is that nobody ever checks their equipment for proper alinement. From what I hear they don't even know how to properly maintain their equipment, and refuse to spend the bucks to have someone who dose know do it for them.
Twenty five years ago Savage was in the same mode of operation. They retooled most of their input machinery, and radically changed their processes. Now they build actions that usually have less than .002" compound error machined into them. Two things came out of this. One is they assembled easier and quicker with little hand fitting to be done because they are much more consistent in the operational window they work with. Secondly finished parts are cheaper to build with less labor involved. Weatherby did the same basic idea a few years back after moving their machining operations to the USA, and now a MK.V can be bought for about the same money as a Model 700 Remington in many cases. I suspect the new Winchester Mod. 70's are similar to the other two.

Greyfox, interesting to hear comments directly from the factory floor!
I recently purchased a New Savage Model12 action only and I have to say (as a Mechanical Fitter & Machinist by Trade (37 Years exp) I am impressed!!!

Doh!
Homer
If Savage was to maybe add $125 in machining cost per rifle, and knowing the equipment and a rough idea on the processes, they could easilly build a .001" window rifle action, and maybe even slightly tighter than the .001". Hard turning and precision hardening are kinda unkown in the firearms world, but done everyday in the rest of the heavy machining world. The real expense would be a second minor recut of the heat treated surfaces to remove about .005".
gary
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  #166  
Old 11-10-2012, 02:19 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: greenwood, IN
Posts: 3,628
Re: Remington 700 quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by J E Custom View Post
There is definitely a difference between the sendero and the SPS (The cheapest) in overall quality,

But even though the action looks different because of the finish, and the stocks on sendero's
are of better quality they are all the same actions and barrels. The sendero's used to be assembled by the custom shop and were first rate. the SPS's are put together by assembly line workers not
gunsmiths and therefore the quality is not there in the assembly.

I have rebarreled many SPS's and after blueprinting and polishing that black crap of the bolt, they
are very smooth and accuracy.

The only Remington I will not work on and do not recomend is the 770. They are a different
design and not much can be done to them if they dont shoot well.

Keep in mind that most of the custom actions are Remington 700 Clones because they work.

J E CUSTOM
nobody ever said the 700 action wasn't a sound design, but it's the other half that kills it. By the way after watching a couple videos of their custom shop doing Mod.40's I knew it was a lost cause from the get go. But given my choice of Remingtons, it'd be a mod. 40 or a generic 722 as they have some things about them I like better.
gary
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  #167  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Leominster mass, originally Salisbury Maryland
Posts: 1,324
Re: Remington 700 quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike 338 View Post
A disturbing conversation. Read all the comments.

Remington - Topix
Mike, WOW, I read that whole link!!! And then we wonder why!! I too am a " Big Green " fan from way back, but that's just it, the older stuff is far and away better than the " off the shelf " stuff nowadays. I bought a new CDL last November, and was never so disgusted with a rifle as that one. It looked great, bit I just couldn't get it to shoot like I know it could. I had heard that CS sucked, so I traded it in, toward another used, but older Remington, that shoots like a lazer. ( go figure).
Bottom line is, the Remington that we grew up with is dead and gone. What exists today that calls itself " Remington" is just a store front.
Mike Walker must be rolling over I'm sure!!!! That man had a vision!!!!!!
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  #168  
Old 11-10-2012, 09:20 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 706
Re: Remington 700 quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7stw View Post
Mike, WOW, I read that whole link!!! And then we wonder why!! I too am a " Big Green " fan from way back, but that's just it, the older stuff is far and away better than the " off the shelf " stuff nowadays. I bought a new CDL last November, and was never so disgusted with a rifle as that one. It looked great, bit I just couldn't get it to shoot like I know it could. I had heard that CS sucked, so I traded it in, toward another used, but older Remington, that shoots like a lazer. ( go figure).
Bottom line is, the Remington that we grew up with is dead and gone. What exists today that calls itself " Remington" is just a store front.
Mike Walker must be rolling over I'm sure!!!! That man had a vision!!!!!!
We hear mostly from the end user, the customer. This is a snapshot of the other half. I'm not one to fault a company for trying to contain costs but breathing a workforce in and out at will, shows a dismissive attitude about the quality that's going out the door. I see a theme here. They don't like their jobs and there's a groundswell of people who don't like their rifles.
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