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View Poll Results: Would you buy a Rem 700
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Remington 700 quality

 
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  #64  
Old 02-29-2012, 11:01 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 698
Re: Remington 700 quality

I was in a big box outdoor store today. I asked the guy behind the gun counter what he had in 243. He started with Remington. I just said "no thanks, I'm not to keen on them anymore". He said, "I don't know what's going on with them lately. I sent back more Remington's than everything else put together".

I think of Remington like I would an x-wife (which I don't have). I can't spend any more time hoping they get on the right track. I've moved on. What's cool is there are now all kinds of gun makers tripping over themselves to manufacture more accurate, reliable and affordable products on the market.

It make's perfect senesce to me... we buy our TV's from Japan, our rifles from Europe and everything else from China. In return, they buy our land, debt and future. The important thing is our leaders (corporate & otherwise) get that yacht before they're asked to leave.
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  #65  
Old 03-04-2012, 02:15 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near Napoleon,MI
Posts: 997
Re: Remington 700 quality

I have 2 Remington rifles. My first rifle was a 700 "Classic" in 8mm Mauser. Like someone else wrote here, this was a 5MOA rifle from the factory ! Trigger was 8lb. Read all about adjusting it, but the trigger springs had been changed after the lawsuit and it was impossible to get even a 3lb trigger and be safe. So I bought a Shilen trigger for less than $100 and it was perfect from the get go. All I had to do was transfer the safety lever from my old trigger.

Despite the new trigger, it was still at least a 3MOA rifle. I looked into pillar bedding the very nice looking stock, but I have never done this before, so I didn't want to mess it up. So I went with a laminated stock from Stockys. The new stock was cut for a heavy barrel so it was automatically free floated. It also had a good decelerator pad, the factory one had the plastic but pad, hard as rock. With the new stock, if I work really hard at it, it will shoot MOA. This was a gun that I paid $750 for used (although I believe the owner never shot it). The 8mm Mausers are pretty rare birds.

The second was a used 700 SPS varmint in 223 with the 26" 1:12 barrel (about 10lb). It came with an aluminum optics rail and a POS chinese mill dot scope on high rings ??? I stripped all that crap off and put on a steel warne rail, loctited to the receiver (which I do on all my rifles). Then Warne Maxima steel rings and my Nikon 3-14x42 Monarch scope. In that shape, first trip to the range, it shot 2-3MOA. The trigger was nice (I was surprised by that, but it may already have had a trigger job) but not accurate. So I removed the stock and found that the plastic stock was distorted and applying lateral pressure on the barrel, and of course it was not free floated.

A 3/4" hardwood dowel and some 40 grit belt sander paper and a couple of hours work had the barrel channel straight and clear of the barrel. The stock was distorted close to 1/8" so one side of the fore end came to a knife edge after the free floating, but I just left it that way. One has to free float by quite a bit, since the heavy barrel puts a lot of load on the fore end and it will bend slightly, so I clear by about 3/32, not by the dollar bill standard.

With that work, the rifle then shot 0.5MOA very reliably and has been my go to gun for Coyotes. However, with the 1:12 twist I have been limited to 55gr bullets and I have been shooting out to 350 yards where those bullets get blown around an awful amount so have been longing for "something better". Barrel replacement in a 700 is a relatively expensive business and it appears that one will never recover the investment, and after all the "tweaking" I decided on my next gun to see how things were with Savage.

So a couple of weeks ago, a Savage 10 Precision Carbine came up for sale (unfired) in 223 with a 1:9 twist, so I jumped on it. I did nothing to it except mount the optics rail and the Nikon Monarch 4-16x50 which had previously been on the 8mm Mauser. 1 magazine for sighting in at 25 yards yesterday (strong wind and falling snow at close to freezing temperatures). I didn't even have to apply any lateral correction to the scope, just dial in the elevation.

Then to 100Yds and first fired 4 shots of 55gr Hornady TAP ammo. 1st shot was 4.5" high, so dialed that down, next 3 were in less than 1/2". Then loaded up some 75gr HPBT Match ammo to see how that went.


Do I need to say more ? Getting any Remington I have bought to this point has always taken work. With the Savage it just works.

I have not had a 308 rifle and have just bought a TC Icon in that caliber so will report my findings once I have it. Just the fact that it has a receiver integral optics rail saves me $100 compared to a Remington or Savage. I don't know what is up with TC, it seems like they have stopped production of the Icon since no store has had any in stock in 308 since last year in November and they have even dried up on Gunbroker. The one I bought has a bad scratch on the wooden stock, but I will either fit a synthetic stock or paint it anyway since my rifles are not safe queens.
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  #66  
Old 03-04-2012, 05:12 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 698
Re: Remington 700 quality

westcliffe01:

That Savage looks like a sweet shooter. They should all do that.

The Icons seem like they should be great shooters too but other than an obscure article or two, nobody's say'in much. It would be good to hear how you like yours.

Weird how you can't find an Icon anywhere???
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  #67  
Old 03-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: greenwood, IN
Posts: 3,576
Re: Remington 700 quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcliffe01 View Post
I have 2 Remington rifles. My first rifle was a 700 "Classic" in 8mm Mauser. Like someone else wrote here, this was a 5MOA rifle from the factory ! Trigger was 8lb. Read all about adjusting it, but the trigger springs had been changed after the lawsuit and it was impossible to get even a 3lb trigger and be safe. So I bought a Shilen trigger for less than $100 and it was perfect from the get go. All I had to do was transfer the safety lever from my old trigger.

Despite the new trigger, it was still at least a 3MOA rifle. I looked into pillar bedding the very nice looking stock, but I have never done this before, so I didn't want to mess it up. So I went with a laminated stock from Stockys. The new stock was cut for a heavy barrel so it was automatically free floated. It also had a good decelerator pad, the factory one had the plastic but pad, hard as rock. With the new stock, if I work really hard at it, it will shoot MOA. This was a gun that I paid $750 for used (although I believe the owner never shot it). The 8mm Mausers are pretty rare birds.

The second was a used 700 SPS varmint in 223 with the 26" 1:12 barrel (about 10lb). It came with an aluminum optics rail and a POS chinese mill dot scope on high rings ??? I stripped all that crap off and put on a steel warne rail, loctited to the receiver (which I do on all my rifles). Then Warne Maxima steel rings and my Nikon 3-14x42 Monarch scope. In that shape, first trip to the range, it shot 2-3MOA. The trigger was nice (I was surprised by that, but it may already have had a trigger job) but not accurate. So I removed the stock and found that the plastic stock was distorted and applying lateral pressure on the barrel, and of course it was not free floated.

A 3/4" hardwood dowel and some 40 grit belt sander paper and a couple of hours work had the barrel channel straight and clear of the barrel. The stock was distorted close to 1/8" so one side of the fore end came to a knife edge after the free floating, but I just left it that way. One has to free float by quite a bit, since the heavy barrel puts a lot of load on the fore end and it will bend slightly, so I clear by about 3/32, not by the dollar bill standard.

With that work, the rifle then shot 0.5MOA very reliably and has been my go to gun for Coyotes. However, with the 1:12 twist I have been limited to 55gr bullets and I have been shooting out to 350 yards where those bullets get blown around an awful amount so have been longing for "something better". Barrel replacement in a 700 is a relatively expensive business and it appears that one will never recover the investment, and after all the "tweaking" I decided on my next gun to see how things were with Savage.

So a couple of weeks ago, a Savage 10 Precision Carbine came up for sale (unfired) in 223 with a 1:9 twist, so I jumped on it. I did nothing to it except mount the optics rail and the Nikon Monarch 4-16x50 which had previously been on the 8mm Mauser. 1 magazine for sighting in at 25 yards yesterday (strong wind and falling snow at close to freezing temperatures). I didn't even have to apply any lateral correction to the scope, just dial in the elevation.

Then to 100Yds and first fired 4 shots of 55gr Hornady TAP ammo. 1st shot was 4.5" high, so dialed that down, next 3 were in less than 1/2". Then loaded up some 75gr HPBT Match ammo to see how that went.


Do I need to say more ? Getting any Remington I have bought to this point has always taken work. With the Savage it just works.

I have not had a 308 rifle and have just bought a TC Icon in that caliber so will report my findings once I have it. Just the fact that it has a receiver integral optics rail saves me $100 compared to a Remington or Savage. I don't know what is up with TC, it seems like they have stopped production of the Icon since no store has had any in stock in 308 since last year in November and they have even dried up on Gunbroker. The one I bought has a bad scratch on the wooden stock, but I will either fit a synthetic stock or paint it anyway since my rifles are not safe queens.
you got off easy with your .223! I bought a new 700VS a few years back, and it literally was a four and a quarter inch gun with hand loads! I worked with it for about three weeks, and some guys I know said to let them see if they could make it shoot. A couple weeks later they called to ask how I got it to shoot four inch groups.

A buddy of mine (a gunsmith) and I tore the gun down to see what was goung on inside the stock. The stock was strait, but the aluminum bedding block was junk. We did a chamber cast and I marked the bad plces in the barrel. The chamer was cut about .007" off center and at roughly a seven degree angle to the barrel. The chamber was completely junk, and the barrel wasn't much better. We chucked the reciever up in a lathe and did a look see. It actually wasn't all that bad, but with a couple of exceptions. The barrel thread had a lot of taper cut in it, but otherwise was very strait. The bolt was seating on a very large burr. The bolt face was within .0005" or maybe even less. The shoulder was out about .0015". I squared up the shoulder and deburred it at the sametime. Then recut the threads to where they ended up being about .015" oversize. The barrel ended up having 1.5" (roughly) cut off the big end and 3.5" off the muzzel. The throat was so bad that you tore up patches, and the muzzel wasn't a lot better. I ended up with a 20" barrel. I ended up relieving for aluminum in the forend, and then pillar bedding right thru the aluminum.

Assembled the rifle, and did a few more bedding tweeks (recoil lug area mostly). The rifle shot 3/4" the first group. But was a bear to shoot. The trigger would try to freeze up during travel. Doug looked it over and did some polishing here and there. Felt better, but still locked up on occassion. Another guy looked at it and said it was a "J Lock", and throw it away. I was given a 1978 trigger that Ferris had rebuilt. Gun is shooting .45" groups. I lost about 75 fps, and tightened my groups by almost four inches. You kinda expect a rifle to shoot fairly well out of the box (say an inch for a .223), and really don't need to have to rebuild the thing. Now I have a 541 that's driving me nuts, and honestly I can't figure out where to start with it. Yet I have another 541 that will shoot a minute of angle at 100 yards without all that much effort. So here we go again
gary
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  #68  
Old 03-06-2012, 05:35 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Leominster mass, originally Salisbury Maryland
Posts: 1,324
Re: Remington 700 quality

Well, I suppose i' ll jump in here, and stir the pot a little more. I have a closet and a gun cabinet full of Remingtons. These are older ones, made before they forgot how to make guns. I just bought a CDL, in 7 RUM. I could not get it to shoot worth a damn. No matter what I did, it was un responsive. I even tried it in one of my sendero stocks. It still would not shoot consistently. I tried all bullet weights, nothing! It found another zip code ! I will not buy any NEW ones, but the older ones are still a good value. I just picked up a mid to late ninetys LSS, in seven mag. Man that does this thing shoot! That CDL looked great, the fit and finish were decent LOOKING, but that ia where it stopped. The good ones are few and far between these days, and that is sad. But, I will say this, when they were putting out GOOD rifles, nobody could touch there accuracy. And , IMHO, they still make the best platform for custom rifles. All of mine are! No more new ones for me, but I gravitate to them in the used but not abused rack. Sad, sad, sad, ....to some of us, Remington is like apple pie, and Chevrolet. Where have all the good times gone?

AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL. . 7 STW
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  #69  
Old 03-06-2012, 07:01 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near Napoleon,MI
Posts: 997
Re: Remington 700 quality

There certainly seems to be a huge variation in the quality of the Remington Barrels, which includes the chamber and throat. It sounds like a tap is used to cut the threads in the receiver, instead of cutting them with a single point tool on the lathe.

On mine, the 8mm fouls noticeably quicker than my 223. When cleaning the 223 which at 26" is the longest barrel I own, it has very low friction and needs very few patches before they come out clean and with no change in resistance. The 8mm typically needs a bore mop first, then some copper remover, then some more #9 and finally some Remoil followed by a dry patch. My one DPMS is similar to the 8mm barrel in that it needs more work to clean and then with the operating system, there are a lot more components that have to be stripped and cleaned and re-lubed.

I think the Remington 223 and the DPMS in 7.62x39 will be getting sold shortly. I already have a superior replacement for the Remington bolt gun and the DPMS in 7.62x39 will be getting replaced with an SKS. In reality the "functional equivalent" of the DPMS will be my Galil in 223 which I should shortly have sorted out. I have to say that with the poor quality receivers and shoddy assembly methods in use at Century Arms, you really have to love to Golani to put up with what it takes to make one of those misfits work. They make Remington look like saints.... On my rifle, they parkerized the inside of the bore, since they forgot to "plug" it when they parked the barrel / receiver. Then the receiver was out of spec, forcing the barrel out of position with a too shallow chamber, so they ground the back of the bolt lugs to make it fit, instead of fixing the chamber or receiver.

When I had the barrel replaced, it needed a replacement bolt, which came out of the surplus bin (at a smith that specializes in Galils). As we later found out, that bolt had been machined on the face that contacts the cartridge by 40-50 thou, altering the relationship of the round to the extractor... With the result that my rifle cannot eject its brass... So now, on the 3rd bolt, it looks like the extraction and ejection will work, but I may have to fix the chamber again.... As I say, they make Remington look like saints...
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  #70  
Old 03-07-2012, 06:14 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: WI
Posts: 52
Re: Remington 700 quality

I bought my first Remington rifle late last fall. I don't know if this qualifies exactly in this discussion (hey, I'm a newbie), but it's a 5R Milspec in.308. It has just a crummy piece of glass on it right now and I've only gotten it sighted in at 100 yards.

But.. it is sub MOA for both myself and a buddy of mine. For me, a 7 shot group in an approx. .7" group. My friend put 3 shots into a .75" group. Just my 2 cents...

Bill
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