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Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

 
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2009, 12:16 AM
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Re: Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

wow! this is all great info. I have a couple questions on what you guys wrote....

260 Shooter- Could the wind drift difference between the 260/308 be fixed if one were using a lighter bullet in the 308? Or perhaps if we used a bullet with a higher BC? Is it really that much of a difference between the rounds that the 308s ballistics can't be made to match?

Michael- You said the 168 is anything but a 1K bullet. What would you suggest for that purpose? Also you said sierra has a bullet with a BC in the .700 range. Do you know which one exactly and what is your opinion of it?

From what I understand, the BC of a bullet is very important so the higher the better right? Why use a bullet with a BC of .54 when you can use one with a .700?
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2009, 12:56 AM
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Re: Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

The sierra 240 MK sports a BC of .711 and is an awesome bullet but a wee bit too big to make it practical for the 308 winnie. Some guys do use it though for the extreemly long paper or gong pokes. It will carry much farther than just about anything.

The 168 is a great mid range target bullet capable of amazing accuracy but wasnt designed for 1K shooting. The real world experiances of myself and countless others selidify sierra's claims that it is not intended for 1K shooting. The 155 sierra palma bullet is specifecly desined for the 308 and 1K shooting as is the 175 SMK. Both do amazingly well both for accuracy and good BC's. The 190 was never desined for the 308 but works quite well. The 155 SCENAR with a BC of .508 at velocities around 3000 is about the best you can do for a match load "on paper". The results in standard air are:

1000 yards
Velocity = 1455
Energy = 729
Drop = 253"
Wind (10 MPH) = 73"

260 139 SCENAR

1000 yards
Velocity = 1569
Energy = 760
Drop = 250
Wind (10 MPH) = 61"

My point is and always is that the 260 maybe "better" perfoming than the 308 but hardly "blows the 308 out of the water". The 308 is still plenty capable and is more than capable of holding its own. Factor in the fact that you can go to the range much more often and actually get to know your rifle instead of worring about the round count never hurt anything either.

That was from a "match" standpoint. Now lets compare practical hunting senarios.

Elk at 600 yards.

308 with 180 AB.

Velocity = 1751
Energy = 1225
Drop = 64"
Wind (10 MPH) = 26"

260 with 140 AB

Velocity = 1817
Energy = 1026
Drop = 59"
Wind (10 MPH) = 26"

Which bullet do want in the shoulder?

If I had to shoot an elk at 600 yards I would rather havethe same inches of wind drift and a few more inches of drop AND a 7.62mm 180 ACCUBOND heading for the shoulder than a 6.5mm 140 grain ACCUBOND.
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (where the shot goes, how big the group is, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.

Last edited by Michael Eichele; 01-03-2009 at 01:02 AM.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2009, 04:51 AM
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Re: Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

Meichele,

I have not had the time to run the 260 w/ the 130 Scirroco's, how does it come in? I think, if I remember correctly the bc is .512. I ran this bullet in a 6.5-06 for the higher bc and better weight retention, plus a little better velocity.

It's 3am and I am headed out to plow, if no one gets a chance to run the #,s, I'll try to tomorrow.

Steve
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2009, 05:16 AM
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Re: Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

[quote=meichele;251368]

Elk at 600 yards.

308 with 180 AB.

Velocity = 1751
Energy = 1225
Drop = 64"
Wind (10 MPH) = 26"

260 with 140 AB

Velocity = 1817
Energy = 1026
Drop = 59"
Wind (10 MPH) = 26"

Which bullet do want in the shoulder?

THE ONE WITH 25% MORE ENERGY..!?
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2009, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 36
Re: Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

The 6.5mm bullet of the same design will have a higher sectional density of the .30 cal bullet so in a sense it should penetrate deeper with the same energy.

However the .30 cal bullet has more energy... is it enough to overcome the higher sectional density at 600 yards? probably yes.

Fact of the matter is the .260 is better at ranges of say 700+ depending on bullet choices and velocity. It holds its energy better but starts of with less compared to the .308.

It simply takes a certain amount of distance in yards before the higher BC 6.5 bullets can catch up to the .308 bullets and overtake them in energy due to them being initially lighter launched at relatively the same velocity.

In terms of drop and wind the 6.5 bullets start ahead and forever will remain ahead of the .30 cal bullets.
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2009, 02:15 PM
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Re: Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry D View Post

In terms of drop and wind the 6.5 bullets start ahead and forever will remain ahead of the .30 cal bullets.

With match bullets yes. With hunting bullets, not so sure. The 140 AB has a BC of .490 The 180 AB is .507. Heavier hunting bullets with higher BC's in the 308's. Albiet 264 match bullets have the 308 match bullets beat.

I will concede to the fact that a 140/264 bullet will have a greater SD than the 180/308.

Lets bump this up a notch or two.

200 AB/301 SD vs 140 AB/287 SD at 1K

308/200 AB at 1K

Velocity = 1331
Energy = 787
Drop = 332
Wind (10 MPH) = 83


264/140 AB at 1K

Velocity = 1326
Energy = 547
Drop = 294
Wind (10 MPH) = 90

At the 600 yard mark the differences are about the same. The 264 will have 10" less drop yet 2 more inches of wind. The 264 will have 100 FPS more but just under 200 FPE less.

Again my point here isnt to say the 308 is better, just that it can hold its own against ANY other caliber based on the 308 case.

Another quality the 308 has over the 260 is more burn area inside the barrel. Equal length for equal length, the 308 will launch the same weight of bullet faster than the smaller bores. This is how we get heavier bullets in the 308 up to the same speed and even faster for the really small bores making up for some of that BC loss. It takes a 30.33" .264 barrel to equal the burn area of a 26" 308 barrel.
__________________
Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (where the shot goes, how big the group is, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.

Last edited by Michael Eichele; 01-03-2009 at 02:48 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2009, 03:10 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 22
Re: Remington 260...The new Sniper rifle?

Thanks for all the great info everyone.
So from what I have seen the 260 may provide a competitive edge @ 1K but not necessarily enough to say that it will beat the 308 hands down. Are there any rounds out there that still have the same recoil (or close to it) as the 308 but have superior ballistics?

As far as the 260 goes, since it retains its energy better out past 700y, should it be considered a better "Elk" round out past that range than the 308?

Now here is question I had about ammo, but first here is the quote that led me to this question..."You don't need a gun that can shoot .1" groups at 100 yards to be competitive at 1000 yards. Long VLD bullets often do not shine until 300yds since they may not fully stabilize inside 100 yards."

What are long VDL bullets and what are some examples of them? Why do they not fully stabilize till 300y?
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