Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics


Reply

Questions about Ballistic FTE

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-18-2011, 06:11 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Grassy Knoll
Posts: 229
Questions about Ballistic FTE

Just started running it on an iPhone 3G and its pretty slick.
Especially the ability to take atmospheric conditions at the time of your "Zero" and then reset the calculations to match the current atmospheric conditions.

Am trying to figure out how to use the drag model functions.
If I have a manufacturer published BC do I set the Native Drag Model to G1?

Which Drag Model (not the Native Drag Model) should be used for the following bullets:
Nosler .224 55gr BT (published BC of .267)
Hornady 6mm 87gr Vmax (published BC of .400)
Hornady 6mm 105gr Amax (published BC of .500)

Do I use the G5 Drag for the Nosler which is the drag model for a low based boattail.

G7 is for a VLD and don't think the Ballistic Tip fits that profile.
Would the G7 Drag fit the other two?

On a side note I've noticed that while using drop charts created with the G1 model in years past, the bullet strike was always a bit low.
Running numbers with G7 seems to take that extra drop into account/
thanks,
Allen
__________________
Member: The Red Mist Culture
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-18-2011, 06:31 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 507
Re: Questions about Ballistic FTE

Unless the source for the BC number tells you differently it will be a G1 BC. I think Berger is the only one that publishes BCs other than G1 and they are G7 but are stated as such.
If you purchase Bryan Litz Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting book G7 drag coefficients are published in it for many bullets and are better suited for VLD bullets.
book

James
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-18-2011, 06:35 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 327
Re: Questions about Ballistic FTE

All manufacturers quote G1 BCs for their bullets, only some quote G7 in addition like berger for example.

So, G1 is almost always the "native" BC in ballistic FTE... that said, the reason you never get a trajectory to work with published G1 BC`s, is because they always invariably publish the G1 BC @ or near a muzzle velocity typically somewhere around 2800-3200fps. The problem is that G1 BC`s are heavily dependent on velocity.

So when you shoot at something and notice your POI is low when using a manufacturers G1 BC, is because the bullet is continuously slowing down after it leaves the muzzle, and the manufacturer G1 BC no longer is relevant.

It is inappropriate to use muzzle velocity G1 BC`s (for any bullet regardless of its shape) in a trajectory calculation because the appropriate BC to use is one that "cumulatively averages" the BC over the course of its trajectory and the entire velocity regime which this encompasses. Unless you have a cumulatively averaged BC, it wont matter which BC model you use in ballistic FTE, they will all be inaccurate...

Id recommend this site to learn more about it Home and Bryans book which covers many subjects related to this matter.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-18-2011, 07:50 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Grassy Knoll
Posts: 229
Re: Questions about Ballistic FTE

Thanks for the replies.
Is FTE useless then?
Am I understanding correctly that FTE does not average the BC of a bullet as it loses velocity?
That book looks like a great resource and will purchase one sometime down the road.
Unfortunately, around here I don't have a place to shoot and get my drops that way.
__________________
Member: The Red Mist Culture
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-18-2011, 09:47 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 507
Re: Questions about Ballistic FTE

Bryan's book would be very helpful to you, after reading it you will better understand how to use Ballistic FTE. I say this because based on your last comment I think you're frustrated a little with it. The book is worth every penny. I purchased 3 copies form Bryan, gave one to a friend and keep one at the office and one at home because I use it as a reference often, it's that good.

James
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-18-2011, 09:58 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 327
Re: Questions about Ballistic FTE

No, FTE is brilliant - i use it myself...

FTE doesnt know how to average the BC, you have to give it the averaged BC in the input. No ballistic calculator can average the BC automatically as it does not have all the information it needs in order to be able to do this.

Different shape bullets and their relationship with BC velocity dependence, vary at different rates due to their aerodynamic shape and mass.
So if we have bullet A - with a BC of say 0.5 @ 3000fps and BC of 0.4 @ 2000fps...
this doesnt mean that bullet B, still with a BC of 0.5 @ 3000fps, will have the same BC as bullet A @ 2000fps... bullet B might be 0.3 @ 2000fps.... so the decay rate is variable from bullet to bullet.

in other words, the BC velocity dependence is unique to every single different bullet. So unless the ballistic computer can recognize a multiple velocity bracketed G1 BC system - such as sierra quotes for their bullets as a means of helping this very dilemma- then you have to derive an averaged number yourself or obtain the averaged number from someone else who has hopefully done it accurately for that bullet, in order to have the best fitting trajectory prediction curve possible.

This is the service Bryan Litz provides, and he provides it in an averaged G7 BC format for long range bullets (which we are most interested in) as G7 is much less velocity dependent than G1, the drag curve fits better to long range bullets, and provides a much more accurate trajectory prediction when used in a ballistic calculator. This is a useful service because manufuacturer muzzle velocity BC`s are useless for anything but a rough comparison of bullets -as in which bullet might have lower drag than another, and of course a selling point for marketing purposes.

When long range shooters talk about BC and its use in trajectory prediction, what we are really talking about is "cumulatively averaged BC" sometimes referred to as "real world BC", not whats written on the box of bullets...
__________________

Last edited by groper; 03-18-2011 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-02-2011, 12:26 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12
Re: Questions about Ballistic FTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by James H View Post
If you purchase Bryan Litz Applied Ballistics book for Long Range Shooting book G7 drag coefficients are published in it for many bullets and are better suited for VLD bullets.


James
I second that, great book, great tables. Sometimes a G1 is better than a G7 and Brian's book indentifies these.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Questions about Ballistic FTE
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Howa 1500 Questions in .223 Questions jaredagreen Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 15 04-02-2011 02:35 AM
Ballistic FTE Cruizin Equipment Discussions 2 01-07-2010 11:35 AM
Ballistic tip 168?? šlg Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 3 06-23-2009 11:59 AM
XCR 338 RUM + HS Precision stock. Questions, Questions, Questions raisincenter The Basics, Starting Out 2 11-28-2007 02:44 PM
combined tech. ballistic silver tip /Nosler ballistic tip winmagman Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 3 10-27-2003 06:26 PM

Current Poll
Spot & Stalk or Ambush For Western Deer?
MOSTLY - Spot & Stalk - 73.57%
1,002 Vote
MOSTLY - Ambush - 26.43%
360 Votes
Total Votes: 1,362
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC