close
Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics

Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics

Reply

Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #22  
Unread 08-23-2009, 11:13 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central Arizona
Posts: 62
Re: Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

Okay, being a newb I have just purchased a PPC (Dell Axium X51) to run a Ballistic program. I have been trying to settle on a specific program but as with most things there are several out there and all seem to have their fan clubs. I was strongly considering Mr.Perry's Exbal until I read this thread. As I am going to be using 7mmRemMag Berger 168 VLDs and having read Mr. Litz's treatise on G1 vs G7, now am confused entirely. On visiting the Exbal site I see this link:http://www.perry-systems.com/Gmodels.pdf
Does this mean that Exbal now has the ability to use whatever "G" profile is most appropriate to any specific bullet's profile ?

As acquiring all the gadgets that are required with my entry into LRH, I would like to reduce the errors of purchasing superfluous items and start with what is "current technology" at the moment. A good, current ballistic program for that pocket PC seems to be very important in that quest. Appreciate any guidance others that have preceeded me may offer.
Reply With Quote
  •   #23  
    Unread 08-23-2009, 11:38 PM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Nov 2003
    Location: Washington State
    Posts: 2,726
    Re: Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chief1942 View Post
    Okay, being a newb I have just purchased a PPC (Dell Axium X51) to run a Ballistic program. I have been trying to settle on a specific program but as with most things there are several out there and all seem to have their fan clubs. I was strongly considering Mr.Perry's Exbal until I read this thread. As I am going to be using 7mmRemMag Berger 168 VLDs and having read Mr. Litz's treatise on G1 vs G7, now am confused entirely. On visiting the Exbal site I see this link:http://www.perry-systems.com/Gmodels.pdf
    Does this mean that Exbal now has the ability to use whatever "G" profile is most appropriate to any specific bullet's profile ?

    As acquiring all the gadgets that are required with my entry into LRH, I would like to reduce the errors of purchasing superfluous items and start with what is "current technology" at the moment. A good, current ballistic program for that pocket PC seems to be very important in that quest. Appreciate any guidance others that have preceeded me may offer.

    From recent email with Mr. Perry when asked about Gmodels: Exbal is still the Gold Card it has lots of features like the Excel interface that Gmodels does not.
    __________________
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

    "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

    www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
    Reply With Quote

      #24  
    Unread 08-24-2009, 05:51 AM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Jun 2007
    Location: Hawkes Bay New Zealand
    Posts: 225
    Re: Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

    For years I've been using a multiple BC system to work out drop charts that match my VLD trajectories out to extreme ranges. It works but is a long and involved process that requires lots of shooting at extended ranges. Since receiving Bryan's book and program, for the first time a ballistic program has got very close to my actual trajectories. Until something else better comes along, I will be using Bryan's BC program to compute my drop charts. For VLD's G1 is at best a fudge that will work out to about 1000 yards if you use an average BC system. The G1 BC varies hugely with velocity, to the point BC comparisons without mentioning velocity are pointless. As velocity drops off your G1 BC also starts to drop dramatically and that makes it impossible to match your trajectory with a single G1 BC to extreme range. Bryan's G7 BC program is far less velocity dependant, and is a very good match out to just above the speed of sound for my purposes.
    I would certainly recommend his BC program to anyone wanting more accurate longrange drop predictions with VLD type bullets. Also, for anyone wanting to learn more about longrange trajectories and everything that affects them, Bryan's easy to understand, thoroughly well written book is a must read. I wish both had been available when I was teaching myself about longrange projectile trajectories!
    Greg
    __________________
    NZ Longranger
    Reply With Quote
      #25  
    Unread 08-24-2009, 07:05 AM
    Official LRH Sponsor
     
    Join Date: Mar 2007
    Posts: 633
    Re: Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

    Thanks for the positive review Greg.

    I had the opportunity to install and review Gerald's GModels program a few weeks ago when he and I were talking about adding G7 capability to Exbal. My understanding is that Gmodels is only for PC, not PPC or any other mobile device. I might be wrong about this.

    I'm planning to tinker with mobile device programing this winter. In order to get started, I'll need to know what devices you all are using. Are you using Palm Pilots (I've got the impression that the newer Palm Pilots are only available with cell phone service subscriptions, can you still get them as a simple stand-alone PDA?) Pocket PC's, Cell Phones (if so, cell phones with Windows, or proprietary operating systems?)

    This can be a deep rabbit hole, but one I'm willing to explore. Having a mobile device capable of calculating ballistics with G7 BC's is critical to this paradigm shift.

    By the way, there are several ballistics apps available for iPhone, if you have one of those.

    Take care,
    -Bryan
    Reply With Quote
      #26  
    Unread 08-24-2009, 08:32 AM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Oct 2005
    Location: Michigan
    Posts: 2,232
    Re: Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

    Good discussion guys, I've been using Exbal on the PC and Palm Pilot for 2 years and for some bullets/velocities, it's very good out to certain distances. For example, for my 7mm Rem Mag, shooting 160AB's at 3015fps, it's dead nuts out to 800yds. But for my 338 Edge and 338 Allen Mag shooting the 300SMK at 2770fps and 3270fps respectively, it doesn't do as well. Albeit, it does fine out to 1000yds or so, beyond that and it starts to crater. This I believe is due entirely to the use of the G1 model.

    Recently when JBM added the G7 models to their program, I ran some numbers for my Edge and AM using the G7 model for the 300SMK and it matches more closely my actual drop curves.

    I compared the JBM drops for my Edge vs the Exbal drops and graphed them in Excel. Here is a chart that shows the MOA difference. (yardage across the top and MOA difference along left side of graph).



    I wanted those curves to be available on my Palm Pilot version of Exbal, so I started experimenting with my own G1 numbers (multi BC) in the Exbal program. I came up with the following 2 entries that pretty closeley (within .1moa) match the G7 drop curves my Edge and AllenMag.

    Sierra MKing Litz -Edge 0.338 300 HPBT .795>3150 .771>2850 .747>1990 .724>1625 .639>0
    Sierra MKing Litz - AM 0.338 300 HPBT .795>3150 .762>2850 .741>1990 .718>1625 .639>0

    These work out to around 1800yds and then they miss by .2-.3moa out to 2000yds.

    I believe that a single entry won't work for the G1 model because the angle of departure is different for each rifle for the same distance and the velocities are so radically different.

    Hope this helps someone out.

    You can add entries like these to the text file 'bulletdata.txt' in the Exbal folder and they will auto-magically show up in your program.

    AJ
    __________________
    If some is good and more is better, then too much is just right.


    My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives

    Last edited by AJ Peacock; 08-24-2009 at 08:39 AM.
    Reply With Quote
      #27  
    Unread 08-24-2009, 08:40 AM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Nov 2003
    Location: Washington State
    Posts: 2,726
    Re: Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsl135 View Post
    Thanks for the positive review Greg.

    I had the opportunity to install and review Gerald's GModels program a few weeks ago when he and I were talking about adding G7 capability to Exbal. My understanding is that Gmodels is only for PC, not PPC or any other mobile device. I might be wrong about this.

    I'm planning to tinker with mobile device programing this winter. In order to get started, I'll need to know what devices you all are using. Are you using Palm Pilots (I've got the impression that the newer Palm Pilots are only available with cell phone service subscriptions, can you still get them as a simple stand-alone PDA?) Pocket PC's, Cell Phones (if so, cell phones with Windows, or proprietary operating systems?)

    This can be a deep rabbit hole, but one I'm willing to explore. Having a mobile device capable of calculating ballistics with G7 BC's is critical to this paradigm shift.

    By the way, there are several ballistics apps available for iPhone, if you have one of those.

    Take care,
    -Bryan
    PPC's are what Gerald prefers, so that's what I got a couple of years ago. Windows based.

    Sure would be nice to see a program with G1, G7 and spindrift and coriolis that can be integrated into the firing solution in MOA. I don't need a library of all the commercial loads out there or all the BC's. I can find those out on my own and as we've seen lately, many of those are wrong anyway. Coriolis was recently added to Exbal, but it's only in inches and doesn't integrate into the solution. I don't want to have to do yet another calculation when preparing for a long range shot. The option to integrate in multiple units would be nice. Another nice feature would be to have the program itself print out a miniturized drop chart that could be taped to a stock, etc. Just rambling...
    __________________
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

    "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson - Notes on the State of Virginia

    www.wildsidesystems.com - Shelter for Your WildSide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYwgo...&feature=g-upl
    Reply With Quote
      #28  
    Unread 08-24-2009, 09:48 AM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2008
    Location: Wampum, PA
    Posts: 1,530
    Re: Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jmden View Post
    Sure would be nice to see a program with G1, G7 and spindrift and coriolis that can be integrated into the firing solution in MOA.

    Coriolis was recently added to Exbal, but it's only in inches and doesn't integrate into the solution. I don't want to have to do yet another calculation when preparing for a long range shot.
    .
    BTW I bought the full version of exbal too and sold it to buy LB3. Much better set IMO.

    LB3 does what your asking above. Check a box to turn it on, or check a box to not use it. Very simple.
    __________________
    "I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid." - Terry Bradshaw
    Reply With Quote
    Reply

    Bookmarks

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes


    Similar Threads for: Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Ballistics programs that estimate pressure... jmden Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 2 11-18-2008 05:06 PM
    ballistics programs calib77 Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 0 07-16-2008 03:00 PM
    online ballistics programs varminthunter-243win Reloading 3 03-28-2006 10:49 PM
    Advice on Ballistics Programs wildcat General Discussion 1 03-08-2006 08:05 PM
    Ballistics Programs apapro The Basics, Starting Out 1 01-18-2006 11:38 AM


    All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:45 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
    All content ©2010-2015 Long Range Hunting, LLC