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Prove MK's Expand At Long Range.

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Unread 05-17-2003, 11:24 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Loon Lake WA
Posts: 362
Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

Remember that the Match-King is a "Military-Round." By such, the military cannot use expanding bullets. Due to these facts, Sierra will ALWAYS say that these bullets are non-expanding. If they were expanding bullets, than they could not be used in sniper service. Think of the size of that contract! Now, maybe they don't expand, but they DO kill deer! We have several people on this thread that will attest to that fact. My biggest question would be: What makes you so trusting of what "Big-Name" writers say? Haven't you been watching? They are only there to sale stuff! If they do a test, they leave names out so as to not slam anyone. Then we end up figuring out what to use on our own.
Portate bien o te lleva el cucuy
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Unread 05-18-2003, 01:04 AM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 40
Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

Sierra will recommend against using Matchkings for two simple reasons.

Firstly, by recommending against their use for game they are then free to make them anyway they want without consideration of their use on game. If you go back many years ago Sierra Match bullets were FMJs.

Secondly, if they recommended them for game they would then have to specify the game size which in turn would place even more restrictions on how they could make them for target use.

For all we know the next generation of Matchkins might be mono metal bullets all grooved and with no hollow point. Imagine the difficulty Sierra would then have if they had previously recommended their match bullets for game use.

I think the very large number of shooters on this forum who say they work well on game is in fact reasonable proof.

Perhaps we could use recoil as an example of weight of postings Vs reality. If we take postings on the 375 H&H across all forums we have two extremes of it hardly kicks at all to it nearly breaks your neck. However the overwhelming number of postings put 375 recoil as heavy but the rifle is fully useable with practice and for most people the 375 represents the end of the road before recoil starts to cause significant compromises to be made in how the gun is shot, assuming normal weight and no muzzle brake. Thus the weight of postings do in fact tell the truth about the recoil of the 375.


[ 05-18-2003: Message edited by: Mike375 ]
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Unread 05-18-2003, 02:09 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Potter Co. PA
Posts: 135
Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

boyd said it best when he wrote "i didnt say it was a hunting bullet. i said it works VERY well as a hunting bullet."

accuracy/shot placement is everything in hunting, especially LR hunting. i use to argue against using MK's with my ol'man in his .243 because as sirra states, it wasnt designed for hunting. however, year after year he puts perfect shots on deer, and has yet to lose one to a MK. i finally gave up argung against him on it because all he did was prove me wrong thru experience. his theory is "as long as i put it where it needs to be, any bullet will take a deer." you might be able to argue against a FMJ, but other than that, its pretty much truth.

if you dont think MK's are good for hunting, then dont use them. thats your choice. if you want to know how they perform, then LISTEN to the guys who use them. no big name writier is going to use them because it'll make them look bad for using a target round for hunting, regardless of how they perform. they'll give you theories based on gellitin tests on what could happen. if you want to know what DOES happen, then be smart enough to hear what people who use them regulary have to say, and take that as the most creditable thing you'll find.

being ignorant and/or saying the way someone does something on here is wrong is NOT the way to conduct yourself. wisdom is gained from experience. respect those who have an abundance of both. you might just learn something yourself. as for big name writers, i havent seen many of them floating around this place...

If it were easy, I wouldn't be doing it.
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Unread 05-18-2003, 03:55 PM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 99
Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

Actually, I do not recall reading any statement by Sierra that MKs will not expand. Also in a Mem of Law issued by W. Hays Parks 12 Oct 1990, and info from Cmdr USSOCOM, Army Gen Counsel and JAGs for Navy and Air Force, is a statement that fragmentation was not a design characteristic, that the hollow point is an artifact of manufacture.

Also the use of weapons, ammo, and material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering was decided against by the signatories of the Hague Peace Conferences of 1899 and 1907, not the Geneva Convention. It was overturned by Parks first for antiterrorist ops that did not involve engaging military personnel of a foreign state in 1985, then the use of the SMK was approved for use in conventional combat in the Memorandom 12 Oct 1990.

SMKs do expand but the wound, at .308 vel from 800+ yds is the same as the old 173 gr FMJ swapping ends, or "tumbling", in flesh.
Rapid fire is the crutch of an incompetent marksman. ONE SHOT, ONE KILL
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Unread 05-18-2003, 11:11 PM
NUN NUN is offline
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 9
Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

I think Savage99 is just trying to stir up the pot. Goto Accurate Reloading if you want to waste a few minutes to see his mindset. That site had a very long thread on MK's and this guy is trying to do the same here. The best way to get rid of him is not to respond, he is only interested in jerking around, playing childish games, stroking his "ego" and not the information.

I'm not here to prove a damn thing to him or anyone else, I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinion of any bullets performance, and I don't need juvenile "prove it" garbage. This is an excellent site with very good information, knowledgeable people and very little BS. I would like to see it stay that way.
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Unread 05-19-2003, 06:53 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,757
Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.


The picture that Boyd posted for me was of my 8 point this past season using a MK at short range of only 75 yards. I was using my 280 Mountain rifle on that one. The 168 gr 7mm Match King was used.
I did it for proof that the MK will expand at short range.

For Savage 99

I have recovered only two MK bullets from elk out of at least 20 killed and the MK did in fact mushroom perfectly.
These were in excess of 1200 yards.

Your on a Longrange hunting forum and if your a short range shooter, you may not understand the princple behind LR shooting and bullet performance. Don't believe everything you read in the Sierra manual.

The Match king does in fact expand---it is a hollow point---think about ANY hollow point you have EVER used, what does it do--EXPAND. Go back in the archives and find the pics we have posted long ago of wounds on animals using Match King bullets before you ask for poof. It's all here.

By the way, the jackets on Match Kings are thicker then many of the "so called" hunting bullets. Add a hollow point to that and you have a very good hunting bullet and I have found it to be true at ANY range I have tried the MKs at.

Your asking for proof of something that has been proved many times by members of this forum.
Maybe you should prove your credibility as a longrange hunter since your on a LR hunting forum?

DC [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-19-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
Darryl Cassel
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Unread 05-19-2003, 08:41 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Potter Co. PA
Posts: 135
Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

wow. just read the whole thread on accurate reloading and then bounced over to hunt america to see what was on there. all 3 are the same- the anti-MK's saying they shouldnt be used, and the pro-MK saying they're effective and have proof from hundereds of kills. that prompts the anti's to restate you shouldnt because sierra said so and then start name calling. i think only one guy stated he has bad experiences with them, and one who said he did LR shooting over 500 yards. everyone else was just trash talking because they cant get their '06 to do anything more than 200 yards and thinks thats fine because anything else isnt true hunting. its pages and pages of childish ignorance. dc, boyd, ww, i dont know how you guys put up with them so long. i cant take people like that. if i dont believe something, i tell ya prove me wrong. if you do, then i shut my mouth and realize i shouldnt open it as much.

its supposed to be a shooting forum for info-
were they designed for hunting? no.
do they work? yes.
do they work very well? yes.
should everyone use them? no.

-take what people have to say and try for yourself to decide whats best for you.

how does a simple subject get turned in to a novel of name calling, finger pointing, and intolerable behavoir?

i dont get it.....

If it were easy, I wouldn't be doing it.
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