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Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

 
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2002, 10:15 PM
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

daveosok,can you give me a little more info on that?
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2002, 12:16 AM
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

Daveosok

Just food for thought. I have found when in a time crunch or bullet crunch, try the ladder (audette) method of load development. One powder, one bullet, one primer. Most of the time we have a good idea which powder and bullet we want/think will work well to use anyway. Normally I only use Federal primers. Now on LR (single shot) guns I start seating about 1/2 the measurable "jam" mark and that gives me only one way to come, out of the lands. Clean paper target at 200-400 yds one aim point at bottom. Got to zero on dot at bottom of target with starting load, so make 3-5 of that charge bullet. Fire one bullet each time at .2 gr increments on powder. Bullets will move up the target and then tend to cluster into small group for 2-4 shots and then move on up. In 15-20 shots you will find 2-4 sweet spots that shoots well within a powder charge range of .2-4 gr. You must plot each rd on sep sheet of paper (good spotting scope) and record MV. When you look at results pretty easy to pick load at MV you want, that your barrel likes. then just fine tune powder and seating depth. Within the 15-20 shots of a ladder and 3-6 more groups you have a load that your guns shoots very well at MV you want. Saves me from shooting 10-15 three to five shot groups and get same results on which powder load. Still have to work seating, but only coming out, not in and out.

As a rule most LR BR shooters have found Sierras like just kissing the lands and the VLDs (Bergers and JLK)like .010-.025 in the lands. That is why I start well in and come out. I would assume the LRBT bullets shoot best well into lands also.

BH
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2002, 01:12 AM
daveosok
 
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

I cant remember I'll have to call him again or send him an email. I may have it at home in an email also but not sure. Whatever the velocity requirements were I exceeded them with all of the loads.
Maybe if hes reading this message board he can tell us.
I would like to see on his site a comparision of twist ratios and velocity requirements for each bullet.
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2002, 02:59 AM
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

Dave, I was not thinking about them being extra long like that, skipped my mind. If the base is seated into the case to the same depth as say, the A-Max, whatever that depth is, do you think that load data for the A-Max could be real close?

I was going to finally load up some 220gr SMKs in the 300 Ultra and shoot today but it snowed all day. I got ready to load them anyway but couldn't find any data with RL25, so I'll call Sierra in the morning. I figured somewhere around 90gr to be max but just couldn't find a mass of loads on the net to make me feel comfortable at 90. I'll load in a range on up just over max, checking for groupings and velocity irregularities.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2002, 11:55 AM
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

Daveosok

you are right that if you do not have at least a close idea on what the powder range is to go to larger spreads such as .3-.5 grains and obviously on the larger cases Still the method works far superior to any other method to quickly find sweet spots within a given MV range for that barrel. Given your 6.5 grain spread with .4 increments you only need 16 bullets to cover the entire range. Firing 3 shot groups to cover the spread at the same .4 interval you use 48 bullets and that is one powder and one bullet. No matter what, it is a faster and less expensive way to completely cover a powder range and find the sweet spots. Otherwise it is a lot more time and expense to cover the same range for each powder bullet combo.

I have just found that this is much more systematic, faster and more accurately covers the spectrum of possible loads for a rifle better than any other method I have seen. No matter what cartridge, we can normally pick 2-3 powders that will work and 2-3 bullets. Out of that we only have to shoot a max of 4-9 ladders of 15-20 shots versus 144 of the 3-5 shot groups to cover the same powder ranges and get us to the same point of where we are fine tuning a load that we know will work. Samething, if we start in the lands, all we have to do is come out at whatever interval you want to use. I had used the 3-5 shot group method and constantly chased a proven load for weeks and months. Until I started this, I never had confidence that I had found the "best" load for a given bullet powder combo. With 150 pieces of brass, I can shoot the 9 ladders in one afternoon and be fine tuning loads the next day. Othewise, you are shooting 3-5 shot groups for months unless you get lucky or tired and say that is good enough.

We at least end up with a load that will shoot. We can continue to test other powder bullet combos and see if we can find something that will beat it, but we are shooting a proven load until then.

Finally, what is the cost versus benefit of the LRBTs? Are you realistically going to be shooting distances and cartridge combos where the ballistics with them is offering you a marked advantage. In other words is 4"-10" less drop at your given range worth the cost. Do not know, but something to consider. Having said that, I will say I have not used them, know people who do and like them. I think they offer a ballistics advantage at the ultra LR ranges if their accuracy will hold up in your gun, but with rangefinders I am not sure you gain any advantage. I just cannot figure out a significent advantage for me given my circumstances and hunting conditions and their cost.

Good luck

BH
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2002, 05:59 PM
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

I agree with Bountyhunter too. The thing I don't like about using more than one powder at a time with one load is that you could be one or two grains off from a bughole grouping load but it is nowhere close to that at the load your testing. The other thing is that the load that looks the best might also be the best it can be right there at that load and never get better while leading you away from a powder that has much more potential, but just didn't group well at the only charge wt you tested. When you test a spread of charge weights with the ladder method on a given powder it will reveal the load range talored to that barrel quickly with more complete and usable data. I pick a powder I want to use and test it first, if the lacking velocity or something else pushes me to another powder only then do I switch, and usually I never need to even do this more than once.
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2002, 09:29 PM
daveosok
 
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

My point is, their isnt any load data for this particular bullet style.
You could use say H1000 and never get that bunghole group and then continue through the powder selection buying more bullets.

I found two powders that warrent more investigations for accuracy potential.
I could have loaded up however many rounds in one powder and not found any of them to be accurate.
This gave me a starting point and I got lucky finding two powders that may result in better accuracy.
I will then do the .2 grain increments and work the loads that way.
The other thought was to get information out on load data since you cant find it anywhere.
This may lead to others not having to go through powder selections and finding the right combo.
This has gone the wrong way actually, it was meant to be informative so that people who use these style bullets or wanted to know about them with load data can do up loads with the powder I used without having to go through hundreds of dollars.
Like I said before, I did exactly what you suggested with the Berger bullets and picked one powder, but I had LOAD data.
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