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Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

 
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  #1  
Old 12-08-2002, 06:21 PM
daveosok
 
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Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

Rifle type
Remington action, trued and blueprinted bolt lugs lapped
Caliber
7 MM STW
Barrel
Lilja 34 inch Stainless Steel 4 groove 1:9 twist
Stock
Choate Ultimate Sniper, bedded
Firing Pin
Speedlock firing pin and spring
Trigger
Remington, precision ground, 1.5 lb pull
Muzzle break
Custom my design
OVER ALL LENGTH info
OAL 3.042 (Stoney Point measurement tool)
TIP TO BASE
OAL 3.755
All bullets seated at lands.

Temperature 50 degrees
Barometer 30.34 in steady
Humidity 54%
Dewpoint 34
Altitude 429 ft

Distance for tests 200 yards measured.
All groups 5 shot groups or as noted otherwise. All cases Remington, all primers Fedral Match 215'3.
Oehler 35p used for velocity results 25 feet in front of muzzle.

FIRST GROUP
POWDER RL - 19
GRAINS 71.4
AVG VEL 3347
HIGH VEL 3382
LOW VEL 3314
GROUP SIZE 2.265 2 fliers

SECOND GROUP
POWDER H4831
GRAINS 74.0
AVG VEL 3315
HIGH VEL 3334
LOW VEL 3328
GROUP SIZE 3.125

THRID GROUP
POWDER N560
GRAINS 75.0
AVG VEL 3460
HIGH VEL 3493
LOW VEL 3428
GROUP SIZE 1 **3 SHOT GROUP

FOURTH GROUP
POWDER N165
GRAINS 77.0
AVG VEL 3442
HIGH VEL 3479
LOW VEL 3411
GROUP SIZE 1.0 2FLIERS*CAUTION TIGHT BOLT

FIFTH GROUP
POWDER RL-25
GRAINS 80.0
AVG VEL 3524
HIGH VEL 3556
LOW VEL 3495
GROUP SIZE 3.5 CAUTION TIGHT BOLT

SIXTH GROUP
POWDER H1000
GRAINS 81.0
AVG VEL 3415
HIGH VEL 3429
LOW VEL 3402
GROUP SIZE 1.375 2 FLIERS

SEVENTH GROUP
POWDER H870
GRAINS 92.0
AVG VEL 3426
HIGH VEL 3471
LOW VEL 3406
GROUP SIZE 1.125 2 FLIERS

8TH GROUP ****168 GRAIN JLK'S****
POWDER RAMSHOT MAGNUM
GRAINS 79.0
AVG VEL 3197
HIGH VEL 3223
LOW VEL 3173
GROUP SIZE 2 2 FLIERS

9TH GROUP ****168 GRAIN SMK'S****
POWDER RAMSHOT MAGNUM
GRAINS 79.0
AVG VEL 3171
HIGH VEL 3191
LOW VEL 3147
GROUP SIZE .625 2 FLIERS
More testing should produce tighter groups.

N560 showed the best possibilities with more load development.
Overall conclusion Lost River Bullets will work, however it will cost you and arm and a leg to find the right loads if you dont get lucky the first go around.

When working up loads with this same rifle using Berger 180 grain I used load data from Accurate Reloader website.

More load development should produce better groups with LRBT.
My thoughts are for the cost and what they claim to be able to do (LRBT) the Bergers win hands down as they required no bank loan to procure enough bullets for testing purposes.

I do like the LRBT and will order some more but for the low budget reloader, he or she may see better gains using Sierra, Berger, or JLK's. Lost River Bullets require finicky settings and I'm sure I will dump a few hundred into buying more to find the correct load.

**********DISCLAIMER************
Information contained herein should be used as a reference only and all loads should be started 15% below stated weight.
This information is factual and centers around my rifle, results will vary with other rifles.
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2002, 03:45 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539
Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

Dave, do you pull out and mark the cases that produce fliers to see if they repeat this the next time?

How come you approach the development with multiple powders first?
Did you work up to the loads with each powder and then shoot these groups after?
Assuming your single feeding because of the 3.75" oal, you might try seating some deeper, one of my guns loaded long to the lands always opens up groups by about 2 more inches no mater what bullet I'm using. I found it strange, but seat them deep again and it's back to tight groups.
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2002, 11:49 AM
daveosok
 
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

Well Brent I only had 40 bullets to work with. 7 of the groups I did were LRBT bullets.
Thats 7 different powders, imagin buying enough bullets to do exactly what you suggested and work up each powder for each bullet. Then seating depth yeah theres another 100 or so bullets.
I wanted to test a lot of them and see what might be worth while investigating before I headed off to buy 500 more bullets for testing purposes.
At 14.60 a box it can get real expensive really quick. I was searching for the needle in the haystack hopeing to have something show signs of possibilities.
I will try and few more powders and set ups first before I go and start messing with seating depth.
The way I do my loads is
first set the bullet to the lands
second try as many different powders as possible set to mean (64.5 grains - 74.5 grains middle is 69.5) load data
thrid record velocity and group size and compare for possible continuing loads
Then I come back and set up for different powder (working with the mean) loads for the bullets that showed signs of interest.
Once I get the right powder and group size then I go to seating depth.
If you mess with to many things at once when working up loads youll never know wahts causing your loads to do what they are doing leaving you in the dark in my opinion.
Brent one more thing,
Have you ever tried to stuff a solid further into the lands? I have the Stoney Point tool for measureing bullet seating depth. With a slight tap from a hammer would be the only way to seat these LRBT deeper, they are solid and are made of different material composition and thus far have a lot harder RC than regular jacketed bullets. Seating deeper may present probelms when loading rounds as seating it deeper would engage the bullet into the lands with such a restraint that bolt operation maybe become difficult as you could possibly be trying to turn the case while the bullet is stationary.

[ 12-10-2002: Message edited by: daveosok ]

[ 12-10-2002: Message edited by: daveosok ]
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2002, 02:29 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539
Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

Dave,
I meant to seat deeper into the "case" not into the lands. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] It turned out for me that my magazine fed rounds shot better than the longer ones that never fit the mag.

BH,
The method you mention is the one I use, called the "OCW" or Optimal Charge Weight. Boyd I think, convinced me to try .5gr increments with the larger cases and I'm glad I did, it worked probably better and costs alot less too. I think I ran six bullets under an inch at 300 yards in one groove and 5 on another bullet too, both were very evident sweet spots. The others were equally evident that they were not! I work on the OAL after the best charge weight is verified, moving away from the lands .005" at a time out to .030" if the mag length permits contact at all from the beginning anyway. My 300 Ultra has between .080-.1" jump no matter what bullet used so it's a moot point with it. I start with a powder that would give around top velocity and is temperature stable, if it doesn't give good good groups or ES is too wide I'll move to a faster powder if a different primer doesn't fix it. I'm going to try the 210 primer and see how it works with the 220 SMKs today.
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2002, 03:51 PM
daveosok
 
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Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

I understand what your saying. Have you seen how long these LRBT are? Seating it deeper in the case would put a lenghty amount inside the case. This may lead to overpressure signs ealier than if it were seated out further.

Bounty Hunter
I understand what your saying also. That is the way I did the Berger 180 VLD, BUT I was able to find loading data for them.
These LRBT have long shank lengths so using data for 162 grain can be dangerous.
I cannot find any loading data for these LRBT bullets, so I had to start from scratch using load data for 162 grain standard style jacketed bullets minus 15% of the standard load.
The other issue is I can buy 100 Berger 180 VLD bullets for 21 dollars, LRBT are 14.60 for 20.
Accurate reloading lists load data for the 162 gr AMAX.
72 grains of RL-22 to 78.5 max.
Using your suggestion for .2 grain increments is 32.5 different testing loads.
I would need 33 bullets for this one powder.
I used 7 and still have powders I havent used.
I would need 231 LRBT to perform tests to find the perfect load that my rifle likes.
168 dollars worth of bullets.
I could get around 800 bergers for that price.
I did seven loads and found two likely candidates for further testing. I will use the .2 grain increments then on the ones that showed possible promise of better accuracy.
See what I'm talking about now when these LRBT are concerned. If I had money laying around of course I would order 500 of these bullets and spend ample time to finding the best accuracy loads.
As it sits now, with no loading data available, starting from scratch is the only way I can go. I understand what you said about "Most of the time we have a good idea which powder and bullet we want/think will work well to use anyway. " in this case with no load data available and shank length being so long using data for standard 162 needed to be started at much lower load weight.
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2002, 05:03 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 429
Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

If you need load data, give Warren a call.
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2002, 05:17 PM
daveosok
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Preliminary results LOST RIVER 162 Gr 7 MM J40 Ballistics

I did, he just told me that you need to push them at a certain velocity with respect to twist ratio.
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