Originally Posted by tangodown
What great feedback! I want to address the question of Cost/Price. It's not my intention to get rich at the expense of a few. Pricing will be more than reasonable. I will try to provide Military Discounts to Retired and Active Duty members of our Armed Forces. I'll even do Firefighter and Law Enforcement too. But, I'm not up to that point yet. Right now I'm at the stage known as Due Diligence.
Yes, I think there is room for another bullet maker. I will make bullets that are unlike anything on the market currently. And, I will offer them at a reasonable price. I will start out producing a dozen or so key items where there appears to be demand and go from there.
All Copper - No Problem; Partitions - No Problem; Plastic Nose Tips - no problem; Consistent Metplats - no problem; Bonded Bullets - no problem; Secant Ogives - no problem; Tangent Ogives - no problem ... Combinations of the above - no problem. Am I going to select a price point that allows me to recoup my investment in machines and dies - of course, I am a capitalist - It's my intent to produce excellent bullets at a reasonable price for you guys - the consumer/customer so we both win.
I will also produce bullets in small quantities for selected folks to try the bullets out - and get them "right" before I start cranking out projectiles.
I'm using my own money to fund this venture so I need to get the business model right the first time
First off, I am willing to pay a reasonable price for a premium LR hunting bullet and by reasonable I know you need to make a profit. That's why you're in business, or going to be in business. The simplicity or complexity, cost of materials (i.e. copper, tungsten) lathe turnd vs swaged, etc are all going to determine your costs which you have to pass along and I think most will understand that.
The most popular cals in this forum are probably going to be 243, 264, 284, 308 and 338. If 1 was going to start with a dozen of what i thought was going to be the best sellers. It would in the already existing range of weights as that is where the market demand is because that's what common twist rates are available. You can expand from there.
We'll assume that the design of the bullets will give the best possible BC for weight, for LR reach.
Starting with the 243, a 115-120 gr bullet that will stabilize in an 7 twist (not really a common twist). Then something that will stabilize in an 8 twist, like maybe a 105 give or take.
In the 264, a 140-150 give or take to stabilize in an 8 twist and something lighter to stabilize in a 9 twist.
In the 284, there is a demand for something heavier than the 180 hybrid, like a 195 which Berger is desinging, but that would require a non-standard twist of 8 or tighter. Not really sure how much of a demand that is?
In the 308, the 215 and 230 Hybrids are very popular, both stabilizing in 10 twists. Something lighter that stabilizes in an 11 twist and shootable in a 308 or 30-06, like a 200 give or take.
In the 338, the 300 gr bullets that stabilize in a 10 twist seem to be the most popular for the big 338's. Something lighter that stabilizes in an 11 or 12 twist might do well for the more moderate chamberings.
In the 25 and 277 cals, the hottest common chamberings are the 25-06 and 270 WSM followed by the lesser common Weatherby chamberings with the common twist being 10. This limits the weight of high BC bullets. I would start by offering the heaviest high BC bullet for a 10 twist in these cals and develop other offerings in 9, and 8 twists.
Being an old AF guy myself and having spent some time at AMC HQ as the functional manger for a computer flight planning system, I understand the process of stating and defining user requirements. I liked flying a whole lot better
The users are LR hunters.
The requirements are for a LR hunting bullet.
The bullet deign should maximize BC/weight ratio. Currently, the Berger Hybrids do this best.
The bullet should give effective terminal performance at short, mid and long ranges. This is the Long Range Hunting site but that said, the vast majority of game taken by members here is at ranges less than 400 yds. I want the ability to effectively take game at any range out 1000 or more yds. so far there are bullets that are good for LR and others that are better for short and mid ranges.
The bullet should be reliable for any type of shot, i.e., shoulder shot, lung shot, heavy bone, soft tissue.
The bullets should work in common twist barrels for the most part with offerings in custom twist barrels as well.
The bullets should be reasonably priced.
As I previously mentioned, I think the best design would incorporate outside dimensions along the lines of a hybrid type bullet with the internal construction similar to a partition type bullet. Another idea might be to place a tungsten core in the tail and body with a frangible jacketed HP lead core nose. The frangible lead core nose would be good for soft lung tissue while the tungsten or partiton shank and tail for penetrating bone muscle.
Tungsten is an interesting idea. It will boost specific gravity which will increase the BC to weight ratio and also help to maintain SD integrity.