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Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

 
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  #85  
Old 02-27-2013, 12:44 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bismarck, ND
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Barrel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
with a little luck and a very light contoured barrel you can shoot bug holes, but it's a lot easier with a very stiff and ridgid barrel due to harmonics alone. Read some of Bill Calfee's writings and you'll see this comming true.
gary
I'll see what I can dig up on Calfee. I've seen this in other areas, so I just wanted to see how it applied here.

Also, when you say light contoured and Very stiff, rigid barrel, is it more the diameter you're talking about? I'm just wondering if that 30" heavy duty barrel is the way to go, or if I should go a bit shorter/thinner?

Thanks again for the info!
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  #86  
Old 02-27-2013, 12:54 PM
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Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

When using the same contour or straight taper profile, for instance 1" at the muzzle, a 26" will be more rigid than a 30", but a 26" varmint .850" at the muzzle would be close to the same as a 30"x1".
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  #87  
Old 02-27-2013, 01:08 PM
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Barrel diameter

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Originally Posted by backwoods83 View Post
When using the same contour or straight taper profile, for instance 1" at the muzzle, a 26" will be more rigid than a 30", but a 26" varmint .850" at the muzzle would be close to the same as a 30"x1".
That's what I was wondering, though re-reading my post, I missed a key point. I was wondering (and this is a question for Savage) *what* the standard barrel diameter was, as all they show is the length. I didn't know if the 30" was beefier because of the length, but I figured there had to be some difference between the normal barrel and the longer barrel. I just didn't know how much it was.
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  #88  
Old 02-27-2013, 01:16 PM
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Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

I have owned 3 with the 30" barrels, still own 2, and they measure .947-.951" at the muzzle. One of the current 6.5x284s ( 12 F class ) measures .947" and has been shooting a hair over 1/8 moa with 140 bergers at 3155fps.
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  #89  
Old 02-27-2013, 02:13 PM
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Re: Barrel

Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGlockGuy View Post
I'll see what I can dig up on Calfee. I've seen this in other areas, so I just wanted to see how it applied here.

Also, when you say light contoured and Very stiff, rigid barrel, is it more the diameter you're talking about? I'm just wondering if that 30" heavy duty barrel is the way to go, or if I should go a bit shorter/thinner?

Thanks again for the info!
Bill is most noted for his rimfire rifles, but as built more than one centerfire bench gun in his time. When he first brought out his ideas on barrel harmonics, he was laughed at by the guys that usually place in the lower half of the top ten. He taught us how to "ring a barrel" and those without a clue laughed him again. But his rifles just kept on winning. He told us about the way triggers were supposed to work instead of why we are buying trigger that don't work. We laughed at him, but he was right. He told us that he uses two out of every five barrel blanks he recieves and the barrel makes went nuts. But he keeps on winning. He set the standard on how to slug a barrel, and 90% failed to grasp what he was achiving. Then we get into his ideas on extractors and ejectors (most are rimfire stuff, but many times still apply to centerfire). The idea of a barrel tuner was probably not his idea, but Bill was the guy that made them work (all a tuner does is change the barrel harmonics in a generay way). I might add here that if you've never had the chance to see what he can do with an XP100 action (old single shot version) your missing out on something.
gary
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  #90  
Old 02-27-2013, 02:42 PM
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Re: Barrel diameter

Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGlockGuy View Post
That's what I was wondering, though re-reading my post, I missed a key point. I was wondering (and this is a question for Savage) *what* the standard barrel diameter was, as all they show is the length. I didn't know if the 30" was beefier because of the length, but I figured there had to be some difference between the normal barrel and the longer barrel. I just didn't know how much it was.
couple points here with barrel threads and such:

* the large shank Savage barrel thread will handle a good bit more torsional stress than the standard one will. How much more many will debate. This brings us into issue number two with all the big players.

* the female thread inside the bridge of the reciever is too short on just about every rifle made. In otherwords fails to do a good job at supporting the barrels weight. Many folks work on the idea that the strongest thread is the same length as the thread diameter. Pretty good in shear and tension, but has it's limits as well. You'd probably a 1.5x factor to start seeing an improvement, and double to get real serious. Just can't be done as well already know. So the reciever's shoulder becomes a fulcrum point. Just the nature of the beast. You screw a super duper barrel into the reciever and then stop to think about what you've just done. There is clearence between the female pitch diameter and the male pitch diameter. Otherwise it wouldn't go together. Then you add into the equation things like lead error in the threads (unless you cut both threads on the same machine you will have lead error). This further adds to the quagmire. A large diameter thread (over an inch) is going to fit looser than something like a half inch thread. Otherwise you'll destroy the threads on assembly. With a shoulder lock up of the threads your probably getting less than 25% thread contact at best, and maybe only four or five threads in tight contact. With a nut you actually pull the threads into contact. How much depends on the quality of the turning operation and who ground the tool. Ideally the best thread for this would be a ground butress thread, but doubt there's four people here that have ever turned one let alone ground one. The thread in 85% contact is known as a stretched thread in the engineering world. Known to be far stiffer and as strait as the female thread it forms to. This will greatly resist the torsional issues of the long heavy barrel. Perfect? Nope! But much better. A good way to test the thread contact is with a tube of Hi Spot Blue and some red lead. The results will scare you
gary
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  #91  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:28 PM
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Learning curve... VERY STEEP!!!

Guys,

Again thanks so much for your help with this. The experience and knowledge base on this forum is far beyond anything I have ever run across before. It's great that so many of you are willing to share the info you have so generously.

I'm excited about this new sport, even with the steep learning curve to it.

It's kind of funny, but when I read some pistol forums sometimes I get a little bored, but occasionally a goes off.

The more I dig into this forum... the more my head hurts!!!!
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