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Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

 
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  #64  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:42 PM
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Still debating

Quote:
Originally Posted by backwoods83 View Post
I suspect you'll pay about 1475 for the custom shop 12lrpv 6.5 creed, or you could get a 12 F class from the custom shop in 6.5 creed for about 1350. I still think the 12 lrp is a good choice, there is a long time member on here, I can't recall his name right off, but he has one in 260 and said it was a 1/4 moa rifle and it was good enough for the 400yrd egg shoots he was going to use it for with 140 bergers at 2850, I would expect the same from the same rifle in 6.5 creedmoor and at only 850-925$ I think they are a deal. I still wouldn't get my hopes up to high on anything past 500yrds using factory hornady ammo, I have chronographed some of their ammo, the worst being leverevolution 444 with a extreme spread of 280fps, and the best being superformance match 308 at 21fps extreme. Buy they 900$ rifle and use another 800 to start reloading, just a thought.

Thanks for the info. The 12 LRP was/is my first choice, but that was before I knew about the custom stuff from Savage being so reasonable. I just want to get the info on pricing both ways. I figure the two ways to look at it are:

1. This is my FIRST long range rifle so I don't need to go crazy with it, or
2. This is probably going to be my ONLY long range rifle, so I better make it good!

Honestly though, this probably will be my ONLY rifle, so I'm not worried about spending the extra money since I'll only need to do it once. I just want to make sure I'm getting enough value in the difference to justify the cost.

<RELOADING>
Reloading for me isn't an issue of cost, it's an issue of time. I love to tweak things to try and make them better. If I reload, in addition to the time it takes to do that, I have the extra time involved in tweaking the load and testing the new rounds. I think THAT is what turns me off the most about it is that I'll be in almost a perpetual state of experimentation. I figure if I don't have any reloading equipment in the house, that time could be spent elsewhere.

I guess I'm just wondering if there is such a difference in accuracy that the only way I could shoot 1/4MOA is with reloads, but at least in the case of the custom, it looks like that is acheivable with factory loads.
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  #65  
Old 01-16-2013, 11:10 PM
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Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

Well honestly if this will likely be your only long range rig, I would have savage do a 12lrpv with a 28" barrel in a 10 twist 308, as it is far easier to get quality factory match ammo other than hornady crap. Federal, BlackHills, Corbon, Double Tap, PPU, PMC, Remington, Nosler, Lapua, Norma, SSA, and Hornady all sell 308 match ammo in 168 and 175grn. Also I know it cost more and some say there isn't enough difference to justify it, but the 6.5x284 is a whole different breed and flat out dominates the other choices and BlackHills, Corbon, Norma, and Nosler make excellent ammo for this round, yes its more exspensive, you get what you pay for. Also I have yet to see any records at any significant distance set with the creedmoor, while the 308, 6br, and 6.5x284 hold several. Of course you can tell I am biased toward Hornady ammo, I have yet to have what I consider "match" grade accuracy from any of theirs, usually I'm happy if Hornady shoots under moa, but since I load my own its only a concern for people around me that just want to use it because its cheap or because of their over inflated velocity numbers.
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  #66  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:18 AM
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Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

DakotaGlockGuy, I didn't see in this thread what type of "target" you would be shooting at. There's several types....

* NRA bullseye long range competition fired from prone using a sling with either metallic or scope sights. Ranges are from 600 to 1000 yards.

* F class where both group and score are used with a rifle resting its fore end on a bipod and held against the shoulder while using a sling at ranges from 600 to 1000 yards.

* Benchrest, rifle fired in free recoil as it rests on bags atop a bench. Same ranges; 600 to 1000.

* Just shooting for group on some paper target at long range, not in competition.

Which one is it?
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  #67  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:46 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,459
Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

If you are going to own just one rifle, you better love the accutrigger and know that before you buy a Savage. Because if you don't the rifle is virtually worthless. There are few to NO upgrade options on triggers. The advantage of a Remington 700 or Winchester model 70 are that they are customizable/flexible after you get settled in to your rifle. If you can not change triggers to a Jewel or Shilen, Timney, etc'; or tune your trigger, the rifle is worthless. The trigger is that important. This is where a Savage fails. They do quite a bit in terms of offering a great rifle out of the box, but they fail in 2 catgegories that are vitally important to accuracy. Trigger and stock. Virtually NO flexibility for after market sellers of parts for these 2 areas, Triggers and Stocks. A Savage rifle will never hold or appreciate in value because of this. The accutrigger being you either love it or you will be disappointed with your rifle. Virtually nothing can be done about it.

My 2 cents.

Good Luck
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  #68  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 54
Q&A...

Quote:
Originally Posted by backwoods83 View Post
Well honestly if this will likely be your only long range rig, I would have savage do a 12lrpv with a 28" barrel in a 10 twist 308, as it is far easier to get quality factory match ammo other than hornady crap. Federal, BlackHills, Corbon, Double Tap, PPU, PMC, Remington, Nosler, Lapua, Norma, SSA, and Hornady all sell 308 match ammo in 168 and 175grn. Also I know it cost more and some say there isn't enough difference to justify it, but the 6.5x284 is a whole different breed and flat out dominates the other choices and BlackHills, Corbon, Norma, and Nosler make excellent ammo for this round, yes its more exspensive, you get what you pay for. Also I have yet to see any records at any significant distance set with the creedmoor, while the 308, 6br, and 6.5x284 hold several. Of course you can tell I am biased toward Hornady ammo, I have yet to have what I consider "match" grade accuracy from any of theirs, usually I'm happy if Hornady shoots under moa, but since I load my own its only a concern for people around me that just want to use it because its cheap or because of their over inflated velocity numbers.

Thanks for the info!

I didn't really do a lot of research on this round, but after looking at it (and the abundant ammo you are talking about), I'll start looking at it even closer. Actually it looks like the 308 stuff isn't even that much more expensive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
DakotaGlockGuy, I didn't see in this thread what type of "target" you would be shooting at. There's several types....

* NRA bullseye long range competition fired from prone using a sling with either metallic or scope sights. Ranges are from 600 to 1000 yards.

* F class where both group and score are used with a rifle resting its fore end on a bipod and held against the shoulder while using a sling at ranges from 600 to 1000 yards.

* Benchrest, rifle fired in free recoil as it rests on bags atop a bench. Same ranges; 600 to 1000.

* Just shooting for group on some paper target at long range, not in competition.

Which one is it?
Good question. Actually about the only one I would rule out is the NRA Bullseye stuff, and I'm looking mostly at F class/just paper target shooting being the bulk of what I'm looking to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by etisll40 View Post
If you are going to own just one rifle, you better love the accutrigger and know that before you buy a Savage. Because if you don't the rifle is virtually worthless. There are few to NO upgrade options on triggers. The advantage of a Remington 700 or Winchester model 70 are that they are customizable/flexible after you get settled in to your rifle. If you can not change triggers to a Jewel or Shilen, Timney, etc'; or tune your trigger, the rifle is worthless. The trigger is that important. This is where a Savage fails. They do quite a bit in terms of offering a great rifle out of the box, but they fail in 2 catgegories that are vitally important to accuracy. Trigger and stock. Virtually NO flexibility for after market sellers of parts for these 2 areas, Triggers and Stocks. A Savage rifle will never hold or appreciate in value because of this. The accutrigger being you either love it or you will be disappointed with your rifle. Virtually nothing can be done about it.

My 2 cents.

Good Luck
Thanks again for the info, and you do bring up some great points.

I think the reason I'm looking at the Savage so closely is because of the cost/accuracy right out of the box factor. Since this will be my only LR gun, I'll get used to any trigger. Remember I shoot GLOCKS, so as far as triggers go... I've got nowhere to go BUT UP!!!!
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  #69  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:10 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: greenwood, IN
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Re: Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGlockGuy View Post
Well I finally got through to Savage today. They are swamped, and I was on hold for over 20 minutes yesterday before I gave up. I was able to get through today and got some info.

Here's what I was looking for (the basics):

Model 12 LRPV
6.5 Creedmoor
30" Barrel - non-fluted
*Dual port (either left or right is possible)

Retail Price: $1,737.00 (That's RETAIL, not dealer price)

Anyway, this looks like the route I'm going to go, but would like some ideas on other options you guys think would be good.

Gary, or anybody else that had some info or a magazine article on this one, if you could post the specs they had I would be great! Apparently there is no list of options, but basically if you want it, they could probably do it.
well I missed guessed the price tag by $200, so now I ask not to be stoned! <g> Kinda looks like you'll still come in under $3K ready to shoot! I'll hunt that magazine article up this weekend.
gary
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  #70  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:18 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: greenwood, IN
Posts: 3,555
Re: Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully2 View Post
I havent noticed that..? I have the same stock ( unpainted) on 4 different rifles, some purchased and some I had constructed ( 22-250; 243; 260 Rem and 6mmBR) and they all side fine on my cheapo Caldwell bags..??

The forearm fits my left hand perfectly...that and I wouldnt have a Savage in the house. I hate that trigger they have among other items.
a little talcom powder or another bag material usually helps the forend. But still could be slightly flatter and maybe a tad more parallel with the barrel centerline (I've never tried to correct this all that much). The real issue is at the butt end and the way it rides the rear bag. That's hard to fix even if you can.

I have a new front bag made of corduroy, and this material looks to be better than the leather bags I use now (Protector and Sinclair)
gary
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