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Ok, Need some input on my build, please...

 
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  #1  
Old 11-06-2006, 01:00 AM
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Ok, Need some input on my build, please...

Ok guys, trying to decide what to do with my Rem 700 300RUM.
I was going to go with the 7mm AM, but now am not sure. I built my 300 RUM put a brake on it, trigger job, nightforce and started shooting, but am not getting it to shoot up to my expectations.

I want a carry weight(10-12lbs if possible) 1000-1500yd gun. I will use this for elk and deer. If I went with the 7mm AM I would shoot the 200gr wildcat's, would those be alright for LR elk? Would like to keep barrel length to around 28" Also was wondering about those carbon barrels, if people are having good luck with them? I was pretty sure about kirby's 7mm AM, but now I've been reading about the edge, some good .30's, and I'm just about at ground zero for what to do.

I wanted to get this action out soon, so I can get it back sometime in spring if that is an option, so any input would be great.

I've got a lot of new Federal 300 rum brass, so I don't know if that would help with the decision at all. I just don't have a cartridge that really sticks out to me, maybe I should just have it rebuilt with the 300 RUM again, but something different sounds fun [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

so once again, any input would be greatly appreciated!
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2006, 06:14 AM
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Re: Ok, Need some input on my build, please...

Hi for a long range hammer the 338-300 Ultra (338 Edge)is an awsome performer. I would go with it as you will have a lot more energy at 1500 yards. at 1000 the 7mm has plenty of energy with the 200gr Wildcat projectiles but at 1500 yards the 338's are much better in my opinion. I would use a 30" barrel but a 28 would be OK aswell. you will be able to use your existing muzzle break on the 338 you will just have to have the centre holes opened up to suit.

The 338 Edge will fit in your mag box and feed very well also you can just neck up all of your 300 ultra brass to 338 and shot it without fireforming. You could also have your 300 ultra sizing die opened up in the neck 40 thou and it will fit the 338 Edge.

Forster will hone the neck of a loading die for about $20 i think it would be worth a go.

As for the carbon barrel it is your choice i would go with a straight taper no6 profile barrel fluted to reduce the weight as the Carbon Wraping will almost double the price of the barrel blank. But it is your choice.

Did you have the Action Trued? if not i would send your whole rifle to Kirby and have him do the job.

Also has the rifle been bedded into the stock?

Speek to Kirby and follow his recomendations as to the components to use.

I have a Lawton Barrel on order in 338 i changed from an Australian made one and it will be 30" finished and fluted
5" 1.275" paralell and .900" at the muzzle. I am thinking of going with a 9.5 twist to see how it go's

Cheers Bill
Australia
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  #3  
Old 11-06-2006, 09:00 AM
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Re: Ok, Need some input on my build, please...

[ QUOTE ]
Ok guys, trying to decide what to do with my Rem 700 300RUM. Here's my 2 cents on your subject.
I was going to go with the 7mm AM, but now am not sure. I built my 300 RUM put a brake on it, trigger job, nightforce and started shooting, but am not getting it to shoot up to my expectations.
That's the problem with a my personal projects also. I wanted a good shooting 338 and after replacing the Win Mag bbl (getting it very accurate but insufficient velocity for what I wanted) replaced it with a 338 RUM take off bbl. After much testing with 225s & 250s and being unsatisfied with both accuracy and velocity I went to the 300SMK. I finally got the accuracy and somewhat decent velocity. This is after many $ in time and a couple of hundred shots.

About the time I finished my factory project my 270 AM arrived. Here's the difference in the process. Bought a can of US 869, got some WC 169s w/195s on the way. Fire formed the cases. Broke in the bbl and sighted in at same time. Asked about BC. Used the number to shoot at several distances. Computer developed the drop chart before I ever went to the range. Shot to verify drop chart. It was spot on. Am ready to take it to the field with confidence to 1113yds and only 36 bullets down the tube. Bottom line is when you get the rifle from one of the rifle smiths here life is a whole lot more simple

I want a carry weight(10-12lbs if possible) 1000-1500yd gun. A rifle of that weight in a caliber that is sufficient for what you want is not a problem. My AM is right at 12# fully dressed. However with the 30" #7 fluted bbl and a super light stock it is balanced towards the front. A bit top heavy for a carry gun but then it wasn't designed for that purpose. I'll just strap it in the drag bag/ shooting mat and strap that on my shoulders and head up the hill. I will use this for elk and deer. If I went with the 7mm AM I would shoot the 200gr wildcat's, would those be alright for LR elk? Ask buffalobob about the 7mm 200gr WC and a 900yd+ 6X6 bull. Even the little 277 195 WC gets to 1K with in excess of 2000 FPE. Short answer: hell yeh they're enough. Would like to keep barrel length to around 28" Also was wondering about those carbon barrels, if people are having good luck with them?I'll have to defer to the rifle smiths on this one. However, I've heard nothing but great things about the ABS bbls and expecially the 5R bores. Kirby's got a special rifling arrangement from them that appears promising GG got exceptional velocity out of the 300 SMK with his but he's shooting the 225 NABs. He attributes the good velocity to the bore. And his barrel is short. I think that Shawn's first Edge had a short barrel. Also, the 300SMK at 2700+ in my 26" bbl'd RUM that weighs right at 10# is a no problem shooter for all afternoon, prone. I was kind of skeer'd @ first but after the first shot all of that went away.
I was pretty sure about kirby's 7mm AM,I'm thinking that the 7mmAM is based on the Lapua case and may not be compatible with the REM bolt face??? but now I've been reading about the edge, some good .30's, and I'm just about at ground zero for what to do.

I wanted to get this action out soon, so I can get it back sometime in spring if that is an option, so any input would be great.

I've got a lot of new Federal 300 rum brass, so I don't know if that would help with the decision at all. Don't even concern yourself about the 300RUM brass. It will work perfectly in the 270AM. I'll take it all off your hands after you make your decision. I just don't have a cartridge that really sticks out to me, I just don't have a cartridge that really sticks out to me, he says. I know whatcha mean. I originally ordered a 224AM but switched to the 270 as I could shoot yotes, deer and elk w/the same rifle. When it arrived I opened the package and my first impression was "It looks just like a rifle. Howbeit a unique and very very well crafted rifle. The real appreciation came when the 3 shot drop chart validation groups out to 500 meters cause jumps for joy and the 1113 yd "fun" shot was observed in the scope AND was spot on, I probably shed a tear, well at least walked a little lighter and I'm sure the grin was one of S-eatin' ones. Once you make your decision you WILL be pleased. maybe I should just have it rebuilt with the 300 RUM again Nah!, but something different sounds fun [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

so once again, any input would be greatly appreciated! You asked for it....[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #4  
Old 11-06-2006, 09:02 AM
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Re: Ok, Need some input on my build, please...

Lovdasnow,

Well, first off thank you for considering my 7mm AM.

If you have read many of my posts you already know I am pretty honest with my replies about my Allen Magnums and will do so here as well.

The 7mm AM will certainly hammer any mature elk at 1500 yards using the 200 gr ULD RBBT out of a 28" barrel. You could expect 3200 fps pretty easily out of this barrel length with that bullet and with its very high BC you will have plenty of energy left at that range for any big game animal in the lower 48.

That said, you need to consider what you are wanting to do. Taking a big game animal at 1000 yards is one thing, taking a big game animal at 1500 yards is totally different. It is expodentially more difficult to hit a specific target at 1500 yards compared to 1000 yards.

Not that 1000 yards is easy but it is dramatically easier then 1500 yards. For a legit 1500 yard rifle, I personally feel 12 lbs or under is pretty light. I would look to more in the 15 lb range for this type of reach. There is a reason lighter rifles are harder to shoot at extreme range. It is not that they are less accurate in most cases, its because they are more difficult to shoot accurately compared to their heavier couterparts.

At 1000 yards you can get away with 12 lbs of rifle weigh pretty easily. At 1500 yards I would still recommend more weight for more stability in the rifle.

Now lets talk about your target game, elk. They are big and heavy critters and at times can prove to be less then willing to give up the ghost.

Again, out to 1000 yards or a bit more I would have no problem at all taking a shot at any elk. Past that it is my opinion that your much better off with a larger caliber round.

Ballistically, the 7mm AM with the 200 gr ULD RBBT is about as good as you will get with a conventional shoulder fired rifle. There are not many options out there that will get you flatter trajectory or less wind drift. Only one I have found so far are the 408 CT based 338 magnums like the Sniper Tac and my 338 Allen Mag and even at that they are not dramatically superior ballistically then the 7mm AM. They do offer more down range energy though.

Unfortunately these are not a real practical option in a light rifle because of the size of the receiver needed to house them.

The other choices you select are good ones but I would recommend skipping over the 300 RUM if you do not go with a 7mm AM. The reason is because the 7mm AM will offer flatter trajectory, less wind drift, higher retained velocity, higher retained energy and better penetration then what the 300 RUM will offer with conventional bullets, evey heavy 30 cal bullets.

The 338 Edge has an advantage over the 7mm AM in a couple areas but the 7mm AM has a couple steps on the 338 Edge as well.

First off, the 338 Edge is much easier to load for then the 7mm AM. The brass can be cold formed meaining no fireforming is needed for cases that are ready for full tilt pressures. Also it is easier to neck up a 300 RUM to 338 cal then it is to reduce a 338 Lapua case to 7mm.

You will also get longer barrel life with the 338 Edge and on average they will be a bit less finicky to load for then the 7mm AM.

The last advantage for the 338 Edge is simply the ability to throw a 300 gr bullet. While ballistically the 300 gr SMK fired from the 338 Edge will not compare to the 200 gr ULD RBBT in the 7mm AM at any range, it does land with more autority at long range without question.

While the 200 gr 7mm may even have more retained energy and velocity then the 300 gr SMK, the big bullet will have more terminal effect on big game at ranges past 1000 yards.

In the event there is no significant bullet expansion, the 338 bullet has the advantage of the signifiantly larger bullet diameter compared to the 7mm bullet.

As far as the advantages of the 7mm AM, the main one is wind drift, significantly less then the RUM based 338s simply because of the higher velocity potential and higher BC of the bullet.

I am not the best at accurately judging winds at ranges that are past 1/2 mile away from me. The big 200 gr ULD RBBT gives me more room for error in windage estimte. For me that can mean muffing the wind estimate and getting a solid liver hit instead of a shot to the paunch of a big game animal. At times those extra 3-4 inches can mean the difference between an animal to pack out and NOT.

Also, case quality is much better for the 7mm AM using 338 Lapua cases but again to be honest, I have used Rem cases in my 270 AM all along and have never found them lacking in performance. They just wear out in the primer pocket faster with heavy loads.

Still, that said, I think there are better options for a dedicated elk rifle for shooting out to 1500 yards.

Simply put, in my opinion, for a 1000 yard rifle, an accurate rifle in the 10-12 lb range with any of the chamberings you listed will work very well when the rifle is dialed in.

For ranges past that out to 1500 yards, I would still recommend a 15 lb class rifle and personally I would go with a 338 AM with a 300 gr SMK at 3400 fps but other then that I would look at the 338 Edge or 338 Kahn with the 300 gr SMK.

You simply can not deny that the big 300 gr bullets hit harder on game at extreme range.

Will the 7mm AM cleanly kill a bull elk at 1500 yards, without question YES!! But, when you are pushing things to that range limit, I would feel better with a big 338 magnum and thats why I designed my 338 Allen Mag for just such uses.

As far as user friendliness and high performance, Shawns 338 Edge is very hard to beat with a 300 gr SMK.

Good Shooting,

Kirby Allen(50)
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2006, 10:30 AM
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Re: Ok, Need some input on my build, please...



I think Roy and Kirby are trying to tell you the same thing. A 12# rifle is fine to about 1000yds for someone with decent skills but past that your gun really needs to be a dedicated long range gun unless your skills are very very good. Just shy of 1K I hit a very mature bull with the 200 gr Wildcat in about as tough of a spot as a bullet will ever hit (assuming you only take a decent shot and don't try to go the long way through) and it certainly appeared to me that even if the bullet had traveled another 500 yds before impact that it would have broken the shoulder. I asked kirby to build me a 1500 yds gun and he and I made sure that the gun was good to 1500yds. The last thing I told Kirby as I left his shop was that my skills might not be polished enough to take the gun to its limits. But I think the gun will easily go to 1500 yds and I am making plans to get more long range practice. I think it will be several years before I ask Kirby to build me a 2000 yd gun. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Secondly, I would agree with Roy that a quality gun whether from Kirby or Shawn is a dream to shoot. I took the load Kirby recommended and never even tested a different load. I think maybe in March or April I might work up a few loads for 160 ABs and 175 SMKs but that is more of an excuse to just shoot the gun than any real need. I may also try to see what kind of groups I can get from the gun now that the barrel has about 30-40 rounds down it and I have access to a bench instead of a cactus patch. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I would not disaagree with any of the 338 fans over killing power but I am a 7mm fan and I got what I "wanted" and am happy. My money and my happiness.

You can look at what I did with the 7AM and what Shawn did with the 338 Edge at very similar ranges and very similar sized animals and both of them behaved just about the same. They just don't flop right over. Shooting alone in not so great light, neither of us could see our hits. Very accurate guns and very good bullet placement but the animal just doesn't flop over. I could never have made the second shot that Shawn made but there are very few people who could. You can also read the story from Goodgrouper of the 1308yd bull and see that bull behaved the same way. Now I think GG's gun is in the weight range you are talking about but not very many of us can/do spend as much time with a gun as he and Shawn do.
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2006, 11:33 AM
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Re: Ok, Need some input on my build, please...

Wild Bill...thanks for your input. after reading what Kirby had to say below about weight I might be heading toward a lighter 7mm AM, and then later (couple years) build a heavy 338 based gun.

no i havn't had my action trued, so that will be included in this whole thing, and I will get a new stock as well.

good luck on your project, be sure to let us know how she works out for ya, thanks again.
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2006, 11:42 AM
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Re: Ok, Need some input on my build, please...

Roy in Idaho...thanks for your 2 cents.

I hear ya on your frustrations with trying to get something to shoot that just won't. Thats why I'm heading this direction, because I love small groups, and I don't have the time to mess with crappy shooting guns. working up load after load to find the same "ok" results. I'm ready for a shooter!

thanks again...jon
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