Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics


Reply

New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8  
Old 07-29-2012, 08:30 PM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,807
Re: New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue

I am talking about building a rifle, not handloading for a rifle, two totally different things.

That is why you have to chamber a belted magnum chamber with what would be considered loose headspace so that all brass will chamber properly, then once fired, if you size your brass properly, you will headspace off the shoulder, not the belt.

Two totally different topics, I am talking BUILDING, your talking reloading.
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-29-2012, 09:48 PM
TMR TMR is offline
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Elma, WA
Posts: 497
Re: New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue

Kirby,

Hopefully you took no disrespect. When I had one of the 7 AM's, WC872 was the powder of choice. This was before I think you starting using Retumbo. The 7 AM is one of my favorites for sure. I totally agree that more horsepower is better and can get a guy out of a bind. Plus the 7AM cheats wind like no other. I may have to give Retumbo another try and see what happens. It does work well in all the other big 7's for sure.

I did play with the STW alot. 13 barrels worth to be exact! Brass is difficult to find now a days, and it won't feed out of AI mags for my tactical customers. What I did find, is that this case design comes really close to my STW's speed with less powder. My feeling is that in shorter barrels, they will probably be very close to the same.

I typically set up belted mags to just drag on the GO gauge and be tight at the bottom of the bolt stroke. Basically zero headspace on the go gauge. I have not had any issue's not being able to chamber any brass, domestic or imported. I do agree that it leaves ALOT of space with virgin cases, but unless a guy is going to stick with one lot of brass, your kinda screwed. There is just to much variance in belt thickness as you said.

With this wildcat, when forming the cases, one is pushing the should back a fair amount. Basically keep adjusting the die until the bolt will just close on the case. The belt really isn't doing anything at all, and the case isn't stretching. Basically the same concept as you showed me to form 7AM cases. This was one of the things I wanted to eliminate when designing this case...the belt is purely cosmetic in this case and doesn't serve any purpose in regards to headspace. This was one of the reasons I tried the 375 Ruger case in the begining, but it was just to many steps to get it where I wanted it. To form this case, lube up a 300WM case, run it into the FL die. It pushes the shoulder back, necks down, and forms the new shoulder angle. Firing the case blows it out slightly and sharpens everything up.


Again, I did not mean any disrespect, sway people away or cause any misconception with the Allen Mag. It is the pinacle of 7mm's for sure and ballistically its tough to beat.
__________________
Travis Redell
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-29-2012, 11:38 PM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,807
Re: New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue

No disrespect taken in any way, I know you much better then that!!! Just wanted to point out that with more testing that Retumbo had proven practical for the 7mm AM is the only point I wanted to make, simple as that.

I agree, for the AI mags, this would be a much better design then the STW and I also agree, that the 7mms based on the 300 Win Mag are damn near equal to the STW and I also agree again, STW brass is really tough to get from time to time.

Thanks for explaining your chamber set up, makes perfect sense and with you mentioning how you set your brass up to fireform, that also eliminates alot of the problem with the belted magnum.

Its amazing that with todays technology, the brass makers can not get us belted magnum brass that is consistant.

Again NO disrespect taken in any way, I just like talking wildcats and rifle building set ups. I think I have mentioned that probably 75% of the customers I have that contact me about a 7mm AM generally get talked out of that wildcat when I find out exactly what they need to accomplish the goals they have for their rifle. I probably build the 7mm WSMs, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Dakotas 10 to 1 over my 7mm AM. For most situations, lesser 7mms will do the job easily, but occasionally its nice to have the HorsePower!!!

Again, I know you would never disrespect me in any way, never took it that way at all. You've been a good friend over the years and I respect your skills in shooting and building, congrats on a find wildcat design. Now its time to get some long range blood on the ground!!!
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-30-2012, 09:48 AM
TMR TMR is offline
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Elma, WA
Posts: 497
Re: New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue

Thanks Kirby,

Your comments mean alot. I do with brass makers could get things more consistent. I think in this day and age, they are more concerned with production than quality.

I will be trying to find a bear starting this week to break her in on! Then it will be headed to your neck of the woods for deer and elk later in the year. I will try to swing by on the next trip over to the house and we can catch up. Probably going to run over and hunt archery elk the end of September.
__________________
Travis Redell
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-30-2012, 02:02 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 464
Re: New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue

I dont have anything near kirby allen or tmr but i have read extensively about all the 7mm's in your origional post. Im with kirby that a non-belted case is preferable to a belted one. Also tmr i wanted to fit in an AI mag with long vld's so i wanted to go elkaholics road and neck down the 375 ruger case to 7mm but then found the best solution for me which came from Gunwerks in the form of their 7mm LRM. I will post pics of the case when i get home. No belt, more powder capacity and a very long neck. It is throated that when the berger 195's come out they will work great. The hornady brass looks great and comes with anealled case necks and looks just like lapua brass. I need to get some solid data but the gun needs some more work first. Coal is 3.420 with a 180 gr vld touching the lands. Should get the same velocity as you are with the rouge but no fireforming or sizing issues. Brass isnt bad either at 1.25 a piece. I compared the brass with some 243 lapua brass, 280ai nosler brass and some hornady 375 ruger brass and it was on par with the lapua in quality and with the anealled necks. Im happy.

Isnt this what you were trying to accomplish? Whats your case oal of your brass?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-30-2012, 02:37 PM
TMR TMR is offline
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Elma, WA
Posts: 497
Re: New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue

The 7mm LRM is basically a 375 Ruger case necked down. It should perform closely with a little shorter OAL. The 7 Rogue is right at 3.6" oal with a 180 Berger. Still fits in a standard mag box and AI mags as well. At the time, Gunwerks was not going to sell brass separately, not sure if that is the case any more or not. I did do some work with the 375 case, but the number of steps it took to bring down to what I wanted, I knew few folks were not going to want to go through the process. 300WM brass is inexpensive and case forming is easy with the 7 Rogue. Those were 2 of the many things I was looking for. If Gunwerks is selling ready made brass, then their 7 LRM is a great option as well.

Keep in mind, that what I am running now is a reduced forming load at almost 3150 and shoots well under 1/2moa. Certainly exceptable practice and hunting loads for sure. The belt on this case is purely cosmetic and not even used. I agree and do prefer non belted cases, but in this case, it was a good parent case that was readily available. There really are no sizing issue's, partly due that the dies are setup exactly for the reamer. Wildcatting is fun. Already have a few more in the works that I hope to get running this winter.
__________________
Travis Redell
R Bros Rifles
www.rbrosrifles.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-30-2012, 03:46 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 464
Re: New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMR View Post
The 7mm LRM is basically a 375 Ruger case necked down. It should perform closely with a little shorter OAL. The 7 Rogue is right at 3.6" oal with a 180 Berger. Still fits in a standard mag box and AI mags as well. At the time, Gunwerks was not going to sell brass separately, not sure if that is the case any more or not. I did do some work with the 375 case, but the number of steps it took to bring down to what I wanted, I knew few folks were not going to want to go through the process. 300WM brass is inexpensive and case forming is easy with the 7 Rogue. Those were 2 of the many things I was looking for. If Gunwerks is selling ready made brass, then their 7 LRM is a great option as well.

Keep in mind, that what I am running now is a reduced forming load at almost 3150 and shoots well under 1/2moa. Certainly exceptable practice and hunting loads for sure. The belt on this case is purely cosmetic and not even used. I agree and do prefer non belted cases, but in this case, it was a good parent case that was readily available. There really are no sizing issue's, partly due that the dies are setup exactly for the reamer. Wildcatting is fun. Already have a few more in the works that I hope to get running this winter.
I agree that what your getting in terms of velocity is excellent. Your parent brass is cheaper but not if using the highest quality brass.

So an update on how the Gunwerks 7mm LRM is doing. They do sell headstamped, and fully formed brass for the 7mm LRM (I just got 200 pieces friday) and they cost $1.25 a piece. This brass comes anealled and seems on par with lapua but we will see if it holds up as well. It seems like gunwerks ordered the brass to their specs so it looks different than the hornady 375 Ruger brass I have.

One correction to my post: I can easily seat the bullets farther out than 3.6" COAL but the gun is throated so they are seated to 3.43".

This is actually optimal for my intended purpose which is to shoot the new 195GR berger when it comes out since the nose on this bullet is longer than the 180 VLD.

What I was asking was the overall length of just the case not a loaded round so I should have been more specific on that sorry. I think for my purposes that what I built will be good for my intentions.

I also noticed your in Elma and Im in Bellingham so it would be cool to do a shop tour sometime. (of course if thats OK). Here is a picture so you can see a comparison of the cases.

New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue-2012-07-27-20.27.54.jpg

Left to right:
375 ruger
7mm Gunwerks LRM
7mm Gunwerks LRM with a 180VLD
30-06 springfield (far right)

let me know what you guys think
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: New 7mm Wildcat....7mm Rogue
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My new gun is done. 338 Rogue pics lovdasnow Long Range Hunting & Shooting 18 03-01-2011 09:34 PM
FS: SSG 260 Rogue tbeasley Guns For Sale 10 07-02-2008 09:11 AM
338-300RUM Rogue and pix 308 nate Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 13 01-28-2008 10:24 PM
338-300RUM Rogue and pix 308 nate Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 0 10-31-2007 12:16 AM
.260 Rogue improved for sale 308 nate Guns For Sale 10 08-10-2007 07:18 PM

Current Poll
Do you archery hunt for elk?
YES - 31.35%
58 Votes
NO - 52.97%
98 Votes
Not yet, but I plan to. - 15.68%
29 Votes
Total Votes: 185
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC