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New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

 
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  #43  
Old 12-01-2013, 07:44 PM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Thanks a lot for the replies guys. I have roughly 500 rounds thru a 338 Edge and, like many of us, I'm just kicking around the idea of going bigger badder on the next build. No good reason for other than I gravitate towards excess. Thanks again
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:03 PM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Kiser View Post
gravitate towards excess.


Well put!
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2013, 08:28 PM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Kiser View Post
No good reason for other than I gravitate towards excess.
I like it

Very well put, nothing wrong with that at all
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  #46  
Old 12-02-2013, 10:23 AM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg View Post
I think there are problems with the bigger calibres, making the jackets thin enough for adequate terminal performance yet still survive the launch velocity/pressure, especially with the faster twists required for the heavy higher BC projectiles

I'm sure we can all remember the first Berger 300 grain 338s....
I agree with this completely. This is the issue with the 350 gr SMK. Great for accuracy as it has a heavy jacket but the heavy jacket retards expansion significantly, especially at long range.

A long time ago, when my good friend Richard Graves owned Wildcat Bullet Company, we were working on some super bullets based on lead core/cup jacketed designs. We went through MANY designs to get what we wanted. The trick is to get a bullet jacket that will survive the launch speeds as Greg has already mentioned but then have a bullet that expands.

To do this, we used a heavy jacket. We tested jackets with body thicknesses from 0.030" up to 0.050". Then he put on a very large aluminum tip. The 0.050" jackets still did not expand much at all. The 30 thou jackets pretty much came apart on impact with my 338 Allen Magnum and expanded dramatically with my 338 Allen Xpress. He then tried a heavy tapered jacket. Around 40 thou in base and body diameter and also at the body/ogive junction which is critical. Then tapered down at the meplat. These were very good bullets. In the 338 AX they performed perfectly for big game hunting out to well past 1000 yards. In the 338 Allen Magnum, under 600 yards, they expanded dramatically but past 800-900 yards they performed extremely well and expanded well out to 1500 yards.

These bullets had a bullet drop derived G1 BC value of .920 from a 265 gr 338 cal bullet and easily stabilized in a 1-10 twist in spite of being about 0.060" longer then the current 300 gr berger hybrid OTM bullets.

It can be done. The aluminum tips add to the cost for sure but if you look at the better solid bullets out there, there is a good price gap between them and the current lead core/cup jacketed bullet. If we could get a conventional bullet with a BC pushing that of the mono solids but with good expansion characteristics, we would be in the chips!!!

As I said, it can be done, its been done. Unfortunately, we were just fine tuning these bullet designs when Richard decided it was time to sell his company so that's where the progress stopped. The new owners have not picked up where he let off unfortunately.
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  #47  
Old 12-02-2013, 10:41 AM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fear in Accuracy View Post
I do have 338/416 Rigby Imp that Darryl Cassel gave me many years ago. I'll post a picture soon, just for comparison.

If I were me, I'd chose 338 Raptor over 338/416 Rigby Imp due to quality of brass.

Darryl's friend shot an elk close to 2800 yards with 338/416 Imp long time ago.
Darryl shot an elk around 2100 yards with this caliber.
The 338-416 Imp is really a dead horse today. It was made obsolete the minute that Wby released the 338-378 Wby. They are for all intent and purpose identical in capacity and performance.

I will not get into the chamber pressure issues with brass going south after only two firings but will say that when loaded to the same chamber pressures, the 338-416 Imp and 338-378 Wby are for all intent and purpose identical.

THen if one uses the 338 Kahn chamber, which has a conventional 35 degree shoulder angle for better headspace control, there is NO difference. No brass forming chores either!!!

It can be very confusing to hear someone state that the 338-416 Imp will get close to 3300 fps with a 300 gr SMK but then I state that my 338 Raptor which is MUCH larger will only get 3150-3200 fps. The difference is that my recommended loads will get you into the 10+ firings per case range and the 338-416 Imp loads will get you one to two shots per case and that's it.

Loaded to the same pressures in a 30" barrel length, you will see roughly these velocities with the various 338 magnum chamberings and the 300 gr SMK:(these are all with conventional throat designs to keep everyone on the same playing field)

338 RUM..............2750-2800
338 Edge.............2850-2900
338 Lapua............2850-2900
338 Lapua Imp.....2950-3000
338-378...............2950-3000
338 Kahn.............2975-3025
338-416 imp.........2975-3025
338 Raptor............3150-3200
338-408 CT...........3200-3250
338 Allen Magnum..3300-3350

Now, all of these velocity levels can be manipulated by adding more pressure. All of these above loads should produce at least 8 firing per case no matter if their brass is known to be very strong(Lapua) or relatively soft (Edge). If you add 10-15K psi to any of these, there will be a significant increase in muzzle velocity but there will also be a dramatic drop in number of firings per case.

For example, many of my customers are shooting the 338 Allen Magnum to 3400 fps. By doing this, they drop brass life from 8 firings per case with my recommended loads(3300 fps) to around 4 firings per case at 3400 fps and they are perfectly fine with this. Getting 4-5 firings per case is my redline mark for acceptable chamber pressure. I prefer more firings per case but if your getting at least 4 firings per case, that is acceptable max chamber pressure in my opinion. Less then this, your simply pushing things to hard no matter if you blame it on weak brass or not.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #48  
Old 12-02-2013, 10:43 AM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Kiser View Post
Thanks a lot for the replies guys. I have roughly 500 rounds thru a 338 Edge and, like many of us, I'm just kicking around the idea of going bigger badder on the next build. No good reason for other than I gravitate towards excess. Thanks again
Perhaps we should have a chat about my 458 Allen Magnum or 510 Allen Maximus!!! Excess to the extreme!!!
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #49  
Old 12-02-2013, 12:51 PM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

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Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
Perhaps we should have a chat about my 458 Allen Magnum or 510 Allen Maximus!!! Excess to the extreme!!!
Easy Turbo. Lol. Thank you for the above post. Great to see the various 338's listed all together like that. My dad has never understood my desire to play with the bigger stuff but its just the way I'm wired and it shows in my main hobby of outboard drag boat racing. When I got into it I went directly to the fastest class to start learning the ropes.
I enjoy the Edge with the 300 Berger but after while of shooting around 2800 fps I start thinking this would be more fun if it were going 3000. Lol
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