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New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

 
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2002, 03:14 AM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Nothing wrong with the 338/378 as long as your familiar with and aware of the belt issue with the Norma brass. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What do yo mean Steve, anything I'm missing about the belt?
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2002, 10:45 AM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Brent,
You've just got to make sure you don't "stand on" your brass to much during the first couple of firings or the primer pockets will open up and you'll see some peening on the front edge of the belt. Some refer to this as the double belt. But you had made a comment above about watching the belt diameter and such so just keep doing what you've been doing and you'll be ok.

This has always been a draw back when using any of the Weatherby belted cases which are produced by Norma. Norma cases are soft and it's easy to open the primer pockets up with normaly safe loads if your not careful. There's been many things tried to get around it. The best is to miniumun headspace the chamber and don't bump your shoulder unless you have to. Some have even gone as far as cutting the belt off the cases (tried it myself) but that wasn't a good solution either. It's the soft brass.

In my 6.5-300 Weatherby, I switched to using WW Super 300 H&H brass and blowing it out rather than using the 300 Weatherby brass. The same load in 300 Weatherby brass open the pockets up in 3 or 4 firings, but I still have roughly (90) some out of (100) 300 H&H Winchester cases that I bought back in the early 90's and have been fired more than 4 times and those pockets are still tight enough to safely load and shoot again.
You don't have that option with 378 brass obviosuly.

Let me know if this didn't answer your question.

Steve
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2002, 02:58 PM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Thanks Steve,

Can you buy the 416 Rigby brass from someone other than Norma? What I'm really wondering is which case is of a stronger desighn and by what MFG? Which case would you use?

I know Lapua redesighned the Rigby case for added strength BUT, they shortened it too. I wish I could get the same speed from the Lapua brass, it is the quality I'm really looking for. I'm just afraid I would be pushing the PSI higher than I want to to get the velocity, been there done that and only found accuracy with one gun that way.

Maybe I'm being a little to technical but this won't be cheap and I don't want to do it twice if I don't have to.

Thanks for your help Steve,
Brent
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Old 02-16-2002, 09:46 PM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Can you buy the 416 Rigby brass from someone other than Norma?
Bell Labs might make the Rigby brass, but I'm not sure. I'm not aware of any others, besides Norma though. A couple of close friends bought some 404 Jefferies brass from Bell when RWS quite making the 404 stuff. All reports I heard was that it was absolute junk for any type of accuracy work. Wall thickness variations was several thousands of an inch. Guess you don't need much better for use in a double rifle to stop an elephant at 50yds though. So you can't blame them I guess.

What I'm really wondering is which case is of a stronger desighn and by what MFG?
Well for all out case capacity yes the Weatherby or the Rigby is going to have more room over the 338 Lapua as you already stated. But both brands are made by Norma so you have the softness issue to deal with. With the 378 brass you have the belt issue to deal with also. So based on this I would go with the Rigby over the Weatherby.

Wonder if Darryl could give us an idea of how many loadings he gets on his cases using his standard hunting load that doesn't wreck the cases in 2 firings.?

If whatever number he gives is suitable for you then go with the Rigby and have some fun.

Which case would you use?
Me personally... I would go with the tough 338 Lapua case improved more than what I have (there's room!!) in a long barrel and 3200fps should be easily obtainable. I know of a rifle with the same exact chamber I have (cut with the same reamer) and used 96gr of R25 without pressure and got 3165fps in a 45" barrel. I've used that same 96gr load in mine and got 2925fps average in a 32" barrel. I believe this barrel may be too long for this setup. maybe?? If you went with a 38-42" barrel using the slow burning powders you should easily end up over 3200fps. If not you could always use the R25 about stay jsut shy of 3200fps. That 86gr load of r25 i nthat rifle was shooting consistant 8" 10 shot group in competition and that was without a whole lot of load workup.
You can't beat the toughness of the Lapua brass. My 338 Lapua brass also holds approx 1.5gr more water internally than my 338 Lapua Norma brand brass also. I've got up to 17 loading on a couple batches of cases in my 338 using Lapua brass. And some of it was shot in hot southern July/Aug weather when the bolt got sticky on opening. But I haven't lost a Lapua case from a loose primer pocket yet. Only 2 or 3 neck/shoulders cracking out of the original 100 cases. 3200fps with that 300gr bullet is very good! are you going to be able to match the 338/416 Imp 1 for 1... no. So I guess the question to ask, is that extra 100fps that is possible in the Rigby case really critical to you and your intended application? If yes then its the Rigby, if not then the Lapua would be my choice. IMO.

I know Lapua redesighned the Rigby case for added strength BUT, they shortened it too. I wish I could get the same speed from the Lapua brass, it is the quality I'm really looking for. I'm just afraid I would be pushing the PSI higher than I want to to get the velocity, been there done that and only found accuracy with one gun that way.
see my comments above. that 96gr laod of R25 at 3165fps was a safe repeatable load in that rifle. Yes I've seen that to many times of someone trying to make a rock bleed and it doesn't work. But in this case I think you can come very very close to the intended velocity with good accuracy based on the above info.

Maybe I'm being a little to technical but this won't be cheap and I don't want to do it twice if I don't have to.
I'll roger that. I've given all the facts I know, and some personal opinion above. Have fun selecting your new toy. That's part of the fun.

your welcome. Let me know what your thinking in return.

Steve
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2002, 11:02 PM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Hello

I get 5 to 7 loadings from the 416 Norma brass when I cut the load down to 117 Grs from 122.5 Grs.

Brent

You would have had more capacity had I sent you a fired case instead of a full length resized one. It would have been about 12 more grains total had I not sized it over the standard 378 case.

The 338/378 IMP Weatherby case and the 338/416 Imp should have the same capacity.
The 33 Baer is the based on the 378 Weatherby case OR the 416 case. When improving them to the SAME deminsions they are both identical in capacity as stated by Bruce Baer who built mine.

Later
Darryl Cassel
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Old 02-17-2002, 03:33 AM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Thank you Steve, Darryl,

Darryl,
The 33 Baer, is that what the 338/378 IMP is? And your 338/416 IMP is the same without the belt, do I understand you correctly?

Steve,
my decission is now even harder, thank you very much. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] If you would, tell me about your ideas to improve the Lapua even more.

The other two really have the case capacity over the Lapua so far, but the Lapua cases are much better, Hmmm when I'm all done I know I'll have one of each I just know it.

5 to 7 loadings, uggg. I guess annealing wouldn't be an issue though. It would be nice starting over with new brass before necks get brittle. But I hate starting over with new brass. The wheels are turnin, and the brains on overload trying to weigh all this out.Thanks guys, I'll have to engrave your names on this when I'm all done for all the help your giving me. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I'm goin to bed, I have to try the new Oehler 43 out tomarrow for the first time. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2002, 07:35 AM
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Re: New .338 lanches a 300gr Sierra MK at 3500fps?

Brent

Thant's correct.
The 33 Bear is the same powder capacity when you imp the 378 Case to the 416 Imp case.

The difference is, no belt on the 416 case and there is on the 378 Weatherby.

You would have to do a lot of shooting to start out with say 100 to 200 cases and load them up 7X. Really not so bad considering how powerful these rounds are and how fast you can launch those 300 gr bullets.
I am pushing mine and if you droped back a bit you could get more lkoadings per case.
I run mine at NOW at 3200 FPS as mentioned before to save case life. When I go full tilt I have run it at 3310 FPS and that's when I only got two loadings from the cases.
To make that bullet REALLY perform, it seems that you need to run it at least 3100 to 3150. Anything over that is icing on the cake and the bullet is MUCH flatter and performs on game much better. A longer barrel is a must to do it though.

Later
Darryl
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