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Need some very quick help on shortening case bodies

 
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  #8  
Old 05-22-2008, 05:49 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: WA
Posts: 38
Thanks J E (-and Roy too!)

Ok, so I've talked to the gun smith who is both building the rifle and is making the dies. I just ordered 4 more 6.5mm die blanks and they are being shipped up to the smith (who lives near me) overnight for delivery tomorrow. We are getting together Saturday morning to both make the intermediate step dies plus anneal the cases. 2 questions:

1 - he just got in the Ken Light automated case annealer, but although it will give us the most consistent case neck and shoulder temps, he's concerned that with a case this short/fat, the automated rotary case annealer might allow too much transfer of heat down to the base. Anyone used an approach other than the water-in-the-pan method on pretty short fat cases and should we be concerned? Obviously with 200 - 300 cases to do, this will go MUCH faster - if it works ok...

2 - I've heard there are 2 possible designs we can go for on the form dies; the first is with the first die to severely reduce the existing shoulder angle while leaving the distance between the current base to the current neck/shoulder junction unchanged but moving the distance between the base and the body/shoulder junction to the target length of 1.298"; then with each successive die, start to re-steepen that shoulder angle, essentially making the neck longer and longer as we decrease the distance between the base and the shoulder/neck junction point. The second option is to instead leave the neck angle alone, and essentially with the first die move the body/shoulder junction back but only for to that 1.298" point by shoving it back, but only to a case diameter of about .06: to .08" with each pass, for 3 to 4 passes - so in other words, half way through the 4 passes with the first approach we would have a case with a very long, very gentle sloping shoulder, while with the other apporach, half way through the 4 passes we'd have a case with have a case that looks like it has 2 shoulders (until we completed all the passes of course.) Make sense?

So my question is, which of the 2 approaches is better - create a very, very shallow sloping shoulder and gradually steepen it, or push the shoulder back, keeping it 35 degrees, but take 4 passes to move back the entire shoulder? I've has one person each, both very reputable, recommend each method. So any input from anyone whose done this (ESPECIALLY with these doggone thick/apparently harder than average) WSM cases (I'm using Winschester cases in face) would be very appreciated. We only have 4 blank dies to do this with and are running very short on time, so it's critical we get it right the first time on this Saturday morning. Thanks everyone for your time!!!
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Scott L.
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  #9  
Old 05-22-2008, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 336
Thanks Grouper. The pic reminds me how much work is involved in making a case shorter !!! ----- 7mmRHB
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  #10  
Old 05-22-2008, 05:57 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: WA
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo 4 View Post
No experience here but just a question/comment or two. Why shorten the cases instead of just necking the WSM case down? Send it back and have him run the reamer in to WSM specs. Why not make a cartridge by just necking up the WSSM case? Sounds easier, but as stated I have no experience with this.
Hi Bravo,

I have very specific goals in mind;

1) more case capacity than either the 6.5 WSSM or the .260 offer
2) must be able to function in a *short action* repeating bolt action using 140 and 142-grain class bullets, not seated below the cases neck/shoulder junction (thus reducing case capacity)
3) must have a bit less case capacity than the somewhat over-bore 6.5x284

The 6.5 WSM (not WSSM) is substantially greater capacity than the already slightly overbore 6.5x284, thus the reason I'm not going that route. Thanks for the thought though!!
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  #11  
Old 05-22-2008, 06:01 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: WA
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmRHB View Post
Scott, I have done pretty much the same process that you are attempting but with a full 300 RUM case. You cannot move the shoulder back .300 with one form die, annealed or not!! My form die set has three form dies and a full length sizing die.The shoulder must be pushed back in stages from the outside so there is someplace for the brass to flow to. The third die gives you the new neck ( thats about 1/2" too long )which needs to be cut off and requires inside neck reaming at that point to get rid of the Donut at the neck shoulder junction. Now you anneal and full length size, trim to length and neck turn. The necks need to be turned because of all the added brass that flows in during the forming process. 300 WSM brass is already very thick in the neck before you even started the forming. About .018 to .020 I beleive.

GG once posted a pic of the steps in forming my 7mmrhb wildcat on LRH but I don't have the skills to go locate it. Maybe someone can retrieve the pics for you but it won't help you solve your own problems if you're in need of quick help as you've stated. Good luck----7mmRHB
Actually THANKS 7mmRHB and GoodGrouper! That is *precisely* what I was needing to know. So an outside push-back, multi-stage approach is the answer. Thanks a million. We have 4 blank dies that are supposed to arrive tomorrow and can machine up new dies (or rather the gunsmith can) and this will work stellar. I have the ablity to either neck turn or ream, and he just got the Ken Light Neck Annealer, so this just should work out perfect. Thanks again!
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