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Need some creative thinking outside the box

 
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  #1  
Old 12-20-2007, 01:36 AM
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Need some creative thinking outside the box

Typically, I would have posted this in the Specialty Handgun Section, but I would like to tap into as many people as possible.
I need your help in coming up with a wildcat cartridge in 6.5 that will give me performance (stay supersonic and hopefully above transonic) out to and just beyond 2K. I seriously want to nail a PD @ this distance.

The challenge is to do this in an 18" barrel
This will be in a specialty handgun.
XP or Striker.
There is a possibility of a custom non-designated action or one sold as a handgun action.
For perspective I have 2 SP's, both are 17" barrels (1-8 Twist). One runs an 140 A-Max @ 2775 and the other a 142 SMK @ 2700 from the muzzle.
the A-Max load is in a XP and is warm even when using Lapua brass (slight ejection marks on the head).

Okay guys, let the creative juices flow
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2007, 07:28 AM
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Well, here is what you have to have.

A bullet with a BC of 0.700 and A muzzle velocity of 3000 fps
or
A bullet with a BC of 0.725 and A muzzle velocity of 2900 fps
or
A bullet with a BC of 0.75 and A muzzle velocity of 2800 fps



The BC of 0.7-0.75 is possible from Richard Graves, I expect, and the bullet would weigh about 155 grains I would guess.

In a 26 inch barrel this would be achievable with a case capacity somewhere around a 264 Win Mag to a 6.5-300 Wby. I do not know the dynamics of short barrels and fast powders so I have no opinion of case capacity for an XP.


My opinion is rather than going with the conventional approach of designing a cartridge to do the job, design a bullet to do the job.
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2007, 07:47 AM
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Ernie

I assume those examples above are 6.5 somethings? What load and speed are you getting with your 7Dakota? Do I remember 176 at 2,800? How close to your goal would you get if you necked it down to 6.5 and used BB's bullet weight?
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2007, 09:24 AM
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My 7mm Dakota (18" barrel) has a MV of 2706 with the 200 grain Wildcat. I would like to do it with an 8T barrel, but that may not be a reality.

I have for sure considered Richard's bullets. That is the only bullet that has gone down the 7mm Dakota's bore.


Len,
Those are both 6.5-284's (MOA Maximum & XP)
What is the Cateruchio's BC?


Elevation will be between 4500 & 5000 feet.

Typically I will lose about 300 fps in a SP compared to the same cartridge chambered in a rifle
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2007, 10:00 AM
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I am using .630 for his 141 grain VLD bullet.
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2007, 01:43 PM
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I can not say for sure but you may be able to get a 200 gr ULD RBBT to stabilize in a 1-8 barrel. Best bet would be with something like a Rock thin land 5R(Good luck getting one in a timely manner) or possibly a Krieger 1-8 4 groove.

The reason I do not list Lilja, there is no 1-8 twist 7mm barrel option. The cut rifles barrels are best for odd ball twist rates.

The reason I feel that the 1-8 may stabilize the 200 gr ULD RBBT is because I am shooting them in 1-9 twist rifle barrels and for the most part have performed extremely well. All that said, I have not done it to prove it.

TO get to 2K, well, from my numbers, you already have the right idea, a 200 gr ULD RBBT at +2700 fps is about the only way I see it happening in a specialty handgun, at least with a level of recoil energy that the firearm design(stock) will handle longterm and in a relatively portable barrel length for a handgun(18").

Only way to improve this I see, getting an aluminum tipped 7mm bullet that is roughly the same length as the 200 gr ULD RBBT but with a bullet weight in the 175 gr range. This would offer at least as high of a BC but with another 100 fps velocity boost.

Now as you know, I do not believe velocity is the only way to get to extreme range, in this case however, your already using the ultimate bullet out there in the 200 gr ULD RBBT as far as accuracy and ballistic performance. Some of the solid VLD designs may run with this bullet but none will be as consistantly accurate over a variaty of barrel designs and bore diameters.

Unfotunately, this is a waiting game for Richard to get the jackets and tips imported and then finalize the design, will the new bullets offer anything over what we already have, from what I have seen with the 338 versions, DRAMATICALLY!!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2007, 02:46 PM
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Kirby,
I plan to get you some cash for a Rock for the Dakota after the first of the year given the known wait time.
totally agree with your conclusions in 7mm. I am waiting patitently/inpatiently for the alum-tipped WC's in 7mm.

What I am wanting to see what can be done in the 6.5 cal. I don't think it can excell the 7mm Dakota in a SP, but I do want to hear what you guys think as the most useable case in the 6.5.

Keep it coming guys!!!
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