Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics


Reply

Need new dies.....

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-06-2004, 05:30 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 528
Need new dies.....

Just bought a factory Rem.VS in .308.
Always used Forster BR dies on my hunting rifles, and they have turned out some pretty tight ammo over the years.
Using Win brass, I generally crank out rounds with about .002 run out average.

But, new rifle makes me kinda look at differant alternatives. Reddings are high on my list as well. Never used the bushing dies, and I am not sure I understand all I know about them. [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

I am looking for extreme accuracy, and not wanting to cut corners.

All advise appreciated, of course...sakofan..

PS, if you recommend bushing dies, would you kindly tell me exactly what I need and how to set them up?? TIA....
__________________
It's only rock and roll....But I like it!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-07-2004, 05:54 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: scotland
Posts: 174
Re: Need new dies.....

redding bushing inline dies are the business sakofan. to use them well though, you'll need to neck-turn your cases to minimise run-out and ensure consistant neck tension.

if you are familiar with neck-turning and are keen to get these dies, email me on nowler@hotmail.com and i'll give you the low down on how to set them up and use them to their full advantage.

kind regards

derek
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-07-2004, 10:28 AM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 528
Re: Need new dies.....

derek, I will take you up on your more than gracious offer. Thanks..sakofan.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
It's only rock and roll....But I like it!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-07-2004, 01:00 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tremonton, UT
Posts: 136
Re: Need new dies.....

Hey Sakofan. You know, the more and more I read and the more I talk to different competition shooters, I realize now derek is right on the money. I think the bushing dies are the way to go to reduce runout and to increase case life. Also, I spent 20 minutes on the phone a few months ago with the tech at redding and he went through every step one by one on how to use the dies and how many bushings you need. Tell you what though, he will scoff at any other brass than lapua for the .308 (as well as the 300WM) though. He says he's given up on all other headstamps due to noniformity and since wall thickness varies little with lapua and wall thickness is almost always consistant from one side to the other. He states he does not neck turn when using very consistant brass like this and only needs 2 or 3 bushings to boot (unlike 5 or 6 for winchester brass). Can't go wrong with bushing dies and lapua brass, and again you won't have to necessarily turn the necks with good consistant brass. Drop derek a line and call the tech at redding and they'll have you convinced!

[ 06-07-2004: Message edited by: shilen30 ]
__________________
"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms" - Josey Wales
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-07-2004, 03:38 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 528
Re: Need new dies.....

Thanks Shilen.

I have a K&M Expandiron, that has taken the place of all my expander buttons on my dies. This tool resizes the case mouth and makes them much more cooperative to work with. My question is, wouldnt this delete the need to have all those bushings?

I just tried using the Expandiron on my Win. cases and a RCBS short base die and the runout is about .002-.003 when this is done. The necks may have to be turned and seem a little tight in the chamber. I guess I dont understand the bushings concept yet. Neck tension is around .002-.003 as well, which seems about right. I havent shot any rounds from this rifle as I am waiting on my new scope to be delivered.

I may give Redding a call and maybe they can explain it to me so I can understand it.

Please dont take this post as an arguement about using Redding dies. Not at all. I dont seem to grasp the bushing die concept. I have produced very nice ammo using Forster dies and have never seen the need to get into the bushings.

Lapua brass will probably make a number of problems go away as well...sakofan..
__________________
It's only rock and roll....But I like it!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-07-2004, 07:16 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tremonton, UT
Posts: 136
Re: Need new dies.....

sakofan,

Wall thickness will vary from case to case, as much as .005 in some lots of winchester, RP brass, and the bushings allow you to get .002 tension for EVERY case, you just nead more than 1 bushing. The bushing dies make it so you don't need the expander unit, thus little working of the brass is done. The bushing shrinks the diameter to .002 less than it would be when a bullet is seated for every case even though an expander unit was not used during sizing (considering your using the correct bushing for every case). Most dies are set up to shrink to minimum SAAMI specs, and if you took the expanding unit out and sized a case with fairly thick walls, the inner diameter may be .005" less (or even less than this)than the diameter after seating the bullet. You thus need to be concerned with neck tension without the expander unit since this will give you an idea of how much your case is being work hardenned and the potential for runout. Deformation during the upward thrust as well as along the expander ball causes work hardenning of your brass and this is your total work hardenning. With the expanding unit in place there may be .002-.003" tension (inner diameter .002 or .003" less than when a bullet is seated) for each thus a variation of only .001", but your work hardenning varies MUCH more from case to case than this (and of course work hardenning is much greater in general using a standard die with an expanding unit as compared to dies with bushings even if case wall thickness was consistant), and brass that is more work hardenned will apply more tension on your bullet even though all your cases may show a variation in inner diameter of only .001" before seating the bullet when using standard dies with the expanding unit in.

[ 06-07-2004: Message edited by: shilen30 ]

[ 06-07-2004: Message edited by: shilen30 ]
__________________
"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms" - Josey Wales
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-07-2004, 07:45 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fredericksburg VA
Posts: 4,102
Re: Need new dies.....

sakofan

You can convert your forester dies to bushing for $35. Jim Carstenson at JLC Precison in Precision Shooting or advertises on BR central. All of mine are done that way and works great. Get the tritium nitride bushings.

If you are changing bushings in the middle of reloading a batch of ammo you are creating more problems than you are eliminating. If the wall thickness varies that much. They need to be neck turned to clean them up. Set up of bushings will vary how far up and down the neck you size, which will effect neck tension. Will take you 2-3 pieces of brass to get them adjusted to same heigth. You have zero idea if that is giving you the same tension unless you are using inline dies with arbor press and dial indicator. No other way to tell. Have to have some measurement of force or just SWAG.

neck tension will start to come from work hardening with firing and the only way to stop that is virgin brass every 2-3 times or annealing the necks.

The expandiron takes you back to nominal caliber with zero neck tension. you need to resize the neck for neck tension.

You will get .001 spring back and normally need .002-.003 so you will need a bushing of .004 smaller than loaded diameter.

Unless you have a custom barrel and chamber doubt many factory guns shoot well enough to tell you any neck tension variations anyway and they all have oversize chambers to start.

BH
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Need new dies.....
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best? 30-06 boy Reloading 57 10-28-2012 09:22 PM
338 lapua brass, 30 cal bergers, 223 wssm dies, 308 dies jacack Reloading Equipment and Components 5 12-06-2010 10:26 PM
Want to trade my RCBS 338WM like new dies for 7mmRemMag dies sambo3006 Guns For Sale 4 08-09-2010 04:37 PM
Redding type s bushing dies VS FL Resizing dies Cruizin Reloading 0 12-09-2008 01:09 PM
redding bushing dies and seating dies 4ked Horn Reloading 1 06-22-2005 07:41 AM

Current Poll
Are you on Facebook?
Yes - 46.63%
1,092 Vote
No - 19.21%
450 Votes
No, but I may join - 1.75%
41 Votes
No way, are you kidding? - 36.12%
846 Votes
Total Votes: 2,342
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC